Math

36 Replies
Snowgoon
17 April, 2016, 12:07 PM UTC

Level 2 Protector boosts your castle defense bonus by 7%

I fail to see how this can be nerfed


My CDB is 4790 so should increase to 5125.3 for 3 hours

All I get is 5055.3


I don't know about you lot, but these relentless nerfs just make me more determined to never spend a penny on this game
I would be much more likely to spend cash if the game designers were not such cheapskates

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
UTC +0:00
mrfreezzzz
17 April, 2016, 1:54 PM UTC
did you check if the bonus applies to fortifications only? i.e. without improvements.
UTC +1:00
toggit
17 April, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

The most destructive secret nerf to maths in this game has been to defender's losses in the combat algorithm

Lord Oberon posted this  - http://prntscr.com/atc5l6

which simplifies to Defender Loss% = Offense/(Defense+Offense)

This means that 2 identical armies should both lose 50%


but this is no longer the case





The victorious defender lost 55.5% .... a secret increase of at least 5.5%

but the vanquished attacker only lost a fraction over 50%


N.B. Both armies had identical strength and the battle took place at an empty castle with no walls etc
I have repeated these battles many times, losing up to 57.5%

UTC +0:00
Snowgoon
17 April, 2016, 5:46 PM UTC

mrfreezzzz said:


did you check if the bonus applies to fortifications only? i.e. without improvements.

It seems to include my 5 Immortals, but not my castle skin - contrary to the description in dragon arts







"A nerf by any other name would still stink" William Shakespeare 1591

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
UTC +0:00
Gadheras
17 April, 2016, 5:49 PM UTC

Tony Hobson said:


mrfreezzzz said:


did you check if the bonus applies to fortifications only? i.e. without improvements.

It seems to include my 5 Immortals, but not my castle skin - contrary to the description in dragon arts



"A nerf by any other name would still stink" William Shakespeare 1591



Its not a nerf, its an, ahem,,,,  changes to make you better make tactical decisions... or something along those lines right?


UTC +2:00
jumy
18 April, 2016, 12:42 AM UTC

richard.plantagenet said:


The most destructive secret nerf to maths in this game has been to defender's losses in the combat algorithm

Lord Oberon posted this  - http://prntscr.com/atc5l6

which simplifies to Defender Loss% = Offense/(Defense+Offense)

This means that 2 identical armies should both lose 50%


but this is no longer the case





The victorious defender lost 55.5% .... a secret increase of at least 5.5%

but the vanquished attacker only lost a fraction over 50%


N.B. Both armies had identical strength and the battle took place at an empty castle with no walls etc
I have repeated these battles many times, losing up to 57.5%

for each addition to the game need to pay something = gain nothing


add here remove beyond

The truth hurts
UTC +12:00
Mehnslayer
29 April, 2016, 11:59 AM UTC

(In notepad I realize I didn't add a percent sign to the 15.6, but I did in the calculations or it would be like 41-44 defense or something)

So Alyona would you care to explain how my archers defense is off by a factor of 1.5? Don't tell me it is because I didn't use basic defense.

19+40%+15.6%+4% = 31.979584 (I just took the long route)

I removed all the armour I had, which is 19 + 40% + 4% = 27.664... Archers equal = 27.4 off by a factor of .2

So why did it go from being roughly 6% off to roughly 1% 

Using estimates,

31.979 - 6% = 30.06

27.664 - 1% = 27.38

20 + 20 + 18 + 18 / 4 = + %% = total


E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace
UTC +11:00
Sculptor
29 April, 2016, 12:48 PM UTC

It works just like taxes.


If you have to pay 100$ en have to pay 25% tax. The total will be 125$ Now you'll get an offer that you don't have to pay those taxes. The amount you have to pay now is not 125$ - 25% = 93,75$ but still 100$.


You can calculate this by:  125 / 1.25 = 100


In your case:

48 hours = 2880 minutes

2880 / 1.25 = 2304 minutes

2304 minutes = 1 day, 14 hours and 4 minutes.


That is the way Plarium calculates. I don't like it either but hey  what can I do.



Member of Blue Magic
UTC +0:00
Invokers
29 April, 2016, 12:57 PM UTC

Mehnslayer said:



(In notepad I realize I didn't add a percent sign to the 15.6, but I did in the calculations or it would be like 41-44 defense or something)

So Alyona would you care to explain how my archers defense is off by a factor of 1.5? Don't tell me it is because I didn't use basic defense.

19+40%+15.6%+4% = 31.979584 (I just took the long route)

I removed all the armour I had, which is 19 + 40% + 4% = 27.664... Archers equal = 27.4 off by a factor of .2

So why did it go from being roughly 6% off to roughly 1% 

Using estimates,

31.979 - 6% = 30.06

27.664 - 1% = 27.38

20 + 20 + 18 + 18 / 4 = + %% = total


Mehnslayer: The troop calculations are done in this way: Base Value * (Sum of all bonuses). So, for the archer in your case it would be equivalent to:


Against Infantry = 20 * (0.4 + .0156 + 0.04) * 20  or 20 * 1.596 = 31.92

Against Occult = 18* (0.4 + .0156 + 0.04) * 18 or 18 * 1.596 = 28.728


Average = (31.92 + 28.728)/2 = 30.3


So, basically all bonuses are applied on the base value of troop and not on top of one other.


EDIT: Even simpler is if you directly do 19 * 1.596 = 30.3

Invokers
UTC +1:00
Mehnslayer
29 April, 2016, 1:16 PM UTC

Without testing that it makes more sense mathematically, however I have always done the math not using () it may of been changed with either the hero or dragon stone update and I just never cared much. 

I did a lot of this stuff like oct/nov last year (I can't actually find the threads anymore) however I know that without adding it individually it lined up using the base stats.

Edit: I got my answer, it was based on conflicting math, it had nothing to do with the tax sculpt, it was because of a very minor percentage which threw the entire thing off. I am getting a very minor percentage difference and I'm not entirely sure why however it does (kind of? match up) the scr shot was taken within like 1-2 seconds of starting the upgrade so it really shouldn't cause a big percent difference like is being displayed but the problem I have was all the maths line up to saying it should be 1d 14h 4m, when it was 23m - it still isn't exact, i'm not entirely sure of the exact second I took the screenshot so its possible that the 1% variation could be accounted for there, but I'm almost positive it was immediately after activating it, so it shouldn't of been that big of a gap 

the percent was nearly 1% difference and it threw me off hard



E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace
UTC +11:00
Invokers
29 April, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

Mehnslayer said:


Without testing that it makes more sense mathematically, however I have always done the math not using () it may of been changed with either the hero or dragon stone update and I just never cared much. 

I did a lot of this stuff like oct/nov last year (I can't actually find the threads anymore) however I know that without adding it individually it lined up using the base stats.

Edit: I got my answer, it was based on conflicting math, it had nothing to do with the tax sculpt, it was because of a very minor percentage which threw the entire thing off. I am getting a very minor percentage difference and I'm not entirely sure why however it does (kind of? match up) the scr shot was taken within like 1-2 seconds of starting the upgrade so it really shouldn't cause a big percent difference like is being displayed but the problem I have was all the maths line up to saying it should be 1d 14h 4m, when it was 23m - it still isn't exact, i'm not entirely sure of the exact second I took the screenshot so its possible that the 1% variation could be accounted for there, but I'm almost positive it was immediately after activating it, so it shouldn't of been that big of a gap 

the percent was nearly 1% difference and it threw me off hard



I read your original post now. Prior to that I commented above just based on the numbers you were doing on troops. Back to the original post: I am assuming that rather than reducing time plarium is just increasing the efficiency. For example:


1 person doing a job takes 48 hours, then after 25% increased efficiency there are 1.25 persons working on the job.


Which means (1/1.25) * 48 = 38.4 hrs/person or 1 day 14 hrs 24 mins (0.4 * 60 = 24 mins) required by one person to complete the job which is according to what you had in the screenshot of your first post.


Now why plarium is increasing efficiency this way and not reducing time should obviously be clear to everyone. 

Invokers
UTC +1:00
jumy
29 April, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

Mehnslayer said:


Without testing that it makes more sense mathematically, however I have always done the math not using () it may of been changed with either the hero or dragon stone update and I just never cared much. 

I did a lot of this stuff like oct/nov last year (I can't actually find the threads anymore) however I know that without adding it individually it lined up using the base stats.

Edit: I got my answer, it was based on conflicting math, it had nothing to do with the tax sculpt, it was because of a very minor percentage which threw the entire thing off. I am getting a very minor percentage difference and I'm not entirely sure why however it does (kind of? match up) the scr shot was taken within like 1-2 seconds of starting the upgrade so it really shouldn't cause a big percent difference like is being displayed but the problem I have was all the maths line up to saying it should be 1d 14h 4m, when it was 23m - it still isn't exact, i'm not entirely sure of the exact second I took the screenshot so its possible that the 1% variation could be accounted for there, but I'm almost positive it was immediately after activating it, so it shouldn't of been that big of a gap 

the percent was nearly 1% difference and it threw me off hard



I think you confused time / speed..... try with media files and have fun, for give you an example think of it in time to do km/ml (distance), where the speed changes the distance..... crazy... this is plarium

anyway,  

1h need: 1h wait time at 100 speed

+100% fast (x2=200 speed): 1h need 0.5 h (30 min) wait time

in a few words all smoke  in your eyes, i did not make calculations if the game calculates correctly, but I give up, all smoke always :)

ps. only for 3hours.....



and think well now which graphics have been adjusted .....

was -% time.... for -50% time you need +100% fast, my trust is lose


see this was correct with -%, now see in your castle......

The truth hurts
UTC +12:00
Mehnslayer
30 April, 2016, 12:23 AM UTC

The confusion was with the percent differences from 4min - 23min 

Depends which half of the O.P you are referring to, my confusion came from the fact that x=22% however the way it is done should of been 20% total.

9H 37m was taken off which is 577

577 = 20.3%, this percent could most likely be accumulated due to a time gap between starting + screenshot

576 = 20%

Unless I am hallucinating someone said that the answer should of been 20% = 1d 14h 4m 

I was trying to put 2 + 2 together

I understand the method of doing it, I said that Alyona's statement lines up.

I can't really describe it but I will try

So 

Sculptor: 2880 / 1.25

2880 / 1.25 = 2304 minutes

2304 minutes = 1 day, 14 hours and 4 minutes.

2880 - 2304 = 576

576 = 9 hours 36 minutes

48 - 9 = 39 (1 d 15 hours)

- 36m = 1d 14h 24m 

Not 1d 14h 4 minutes 

Me: 2880 / 20%

38 (24 + 14) * 60 + 23 = 2303 minutes (1d 14h 23m)

2880 - 2303 = 577 = 20.03%

Result:

1d 14h 23m

It's okay I got my answer, but hopefully that helps you guys get in my mind and why I was confused. I don't think I can explain it any better then that



E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace
UTC +11:00
jumy
30 April, 2016, 11:57 AM UTC

if the game works so is wrong.... 

The truth hurts
UTC +12:00
Tetix
9 May, 2016, 2:27 PM UTC

Mehnslayer said:

2304 minutes = 1 day, 14 hours and 4 minutes.

2304 minutes divided by 60 = 38.4 hours


This means 38 hours (1 day, 14 hours) AND 0.4*60=24 minutes.

UTC +3:00
IronApex Turok
10 May, 2016, 6:51 AM UTC
one of the fatal flaws of this game is that defense isnt more powerful than offense.  Anytime a player attacks another he should be weighing the risk of sending his offense to die.   but Plarium has made it the opposite.   everytime a player defends he has to ask is it better to just catacomb and hide?
UTC +0:00
Gadheras
10 May, 2016, 6:54 AM UTC

IronApex Turok said:


one of the fatal flaws of this game is that defense isnt more powerful than offense.  Anytime a player attacks another he should be weighing the risk of sending his offense to die.   but Plarium has made it the opposite.   everytime a player defends he has to ask is it better to just catacomb and hide?

Its all about the MONEY. Buy those walls man... spend spend spend.



UTC +2:00
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