BILSK makes BOLD statement

36 Replies
Jezebel
6 February, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC
Ogre said:

Jezebel said:


As for the details of the NAP agreement that was indeed broken by BILSK, I was the one who negotiated it on BILSK's behalf.  As a former Captain of BILSKIRNIR the information is accurate.

So how are you going to 'justify' those planned hits your leaders are working on on a number of leagues who have zero actual interaction with you, and stay right away from you? 


I am looking forward to the fantasy story you will devise out of that one, perhaps I can help you get started on some wonderful verse on how they were planning on taking out all your beacons at once because KT told them to do so, cause like all leagues are just at the direction and utterance of Kt or the Coralition and don't have the ability to think on their own 


And I would not hold you as the fountain of all knowledge and reliability as if you liked Bikskirnir you would still be there and not yourself gleefully hitting them 



Perhaps you should know a bit about me, I did not aid the coralition in those attacks, as a matter of fact I was quite upset about it.  I left BILSKIRNIR not because I disliked them but the inability to maintain a diplomatic relationship that was formed to protect BILSKIRNIR had more to do with it than anything.  I made efforts to protect BILSKIRNIR and those efforts were disregarded.  Why would I stay somewhere and continue, it becomes quite exhausting and when you are no longer happy it is indeed time to move on.  I bear no ill will towards BILSK and hope they can regroup and rebuild and in the future maintain relationships it establishes with other leagues.
UTC +0:00
mindful
7 February, 2016, 12:21 PM UTC
Can someone in a few sentences write what Bilskirnir broke? In stormfall laygrunt terms. If it is secret just inform me of that. I have not been able to deduct it from the texts above. 
UTC +0:00
TheLegend
7 February, 2016, 2:10 PM UTC

Yes that would be very helpful.

UTC +0:00
djmoody
7 February, 2016, 2:13 PM UTC

There was a beacon NAP (Non Aggression pact) between Bilks & GoA/KoC. As part of this they agreed a swap of beacons with GoA/KoC and territory boundaries.

When the beacon spawn didn't go their way Bilks chose to step over the agreed boundaries. Basically within weeks they broke their word. This is against the background of over 6 months of serious problems.

Not helping this situation, all the people that some trust had been built with during the NAP negotiations had left Bilks. With the voices of reason gone there was little hope of any lasting peace with Bilks in the future (mainly due to the attitude of the Marshal).

In summary, you can only poke the bear so many times........

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
mindful
7 February, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

"There was a beacon NAP (Non Aggression pact) between Bilks & GoA/KoC. As part of this they agreed a swap of beacons with GoA/KoC and territory boundaries.

When the beacon spawn didn't go their way Bilks chose to step over the agreed boundaries. "


Okey thank you for this information. Agreement of territory boundaries. Then the beacon drop and it did not fall to Bilskirners favor. So they decided to step over the agreed boundaries and not ask first. 

UTC +0:00
test
9 February, 2016, 6:51 AM UTC

mindful said:


"There was a beacon NAP (Non Aggression pact) between Bilks & GoA/KoC. As part of this they agreed a swap of beacons with GoA/KoC and territory boundaries.

When the beacon spawn didn't go their way Bilks chose to step over the agreed boundaries. "


Okey thank you for this information. Agreement of territory boundaries. Then the beacon drop and it did not fall to Bilskirners favor. So they decided to step over the agreed boundaries and not ask first. 

The beacon drop was in favor of both leagues.  The map had 200 beacons, and it spawned another 100 beacons (50% increase) for a total of three rows in the north above both BILSK and GoA.  They both had the same opportunity for Northern growth from where their areas were.


There was a written agreement with a picture addendum that had a very clear verticle line drawn to show who could go where.  GoA was to stick to the West side of the line, and BILSK was supposed to stick the East.  Instead, BILSK went west srtaight above GoA beacons (the West side) and took a couple beacons, and followed it up with league wides to stack and defend them.  A very blatent breach of the NaP which we all signed and agreed to just a few days before (maybe it had been a week by this point) (strike 1)


Then after Jezebel did a ton of work and got the league to reverse SILVER's decison and then worked a ton of diplo with us to explain why we should give them another chance, that was sorted for the time being.  BILSK beacons sorted on the correct side of the NaP agreement and we were back to another attempt at a fresh start.  And a week or 2 later, they took yet another beacon, on the wrong side of the line from German Raiders.  (strike 2)


Then about a month went by and SILVER told me in our group chat that he was about to secure a swap with German Raiders edge beacon which was once again, on the wrong side of the line.  I reminded him that this is the third time he has broken the NaP we all agreed to and that I wanted nothing more to do with any attempts at beacon diplomacy.  (strike 3)


After repeated, blatent disregard for the agreement he made, enough was enough, and we decided to fight with him for territory instead of attempting any further negotiations for a peaceful arragment, since time and time again his actions showed he had no desire to keep his promises.


And as DJ had mentioned above, this is on top of the previous 6 months of issues that had gone on.  And to top it off, nearly their entire leadership had quit the league (which should be a huge warning sign for anyone).  Take a moment and think about your own league, if nearly all of your current captains either quit or are booted, what kind of statement does that make?  


Was it everyone else causing the issues, or is it possible that there might be an issue at the top that all the subordinates could no longer work with?


Hope that makes a bit more sense as to why the issues are there with BILSK.

UTC +0:00
mindful
9 February, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC
Very good and informative text test. Thank you sir. I would do my best to blow anyone, not complying as above, to smithereens a lot earlier. Golly you are one patient leader.
UTC +0:00
SILVERHAMMER
10 February, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

TEST 

again misinformed 

i booted some of those captains for making derogatory and inflammatory comments about a fellow captains sexuality 

one who happens to be in your league 

so i stood up for a longtime captain of mine 

who still left to follow his dreams of being a lackey to self imposed tyrant like your self 

so be it 

others left due to the threat of being assaulted by about 6 big leagues 

because none of you 

especially KOC 

and GOA 

have the balls to take us on by themselves 

so you guys resort to your old worn out tactic of bullying and using your lackey leagues to do softening blows 

and having one of my actual allies attack me also 

good show 

your form of diplomacy is absolutly disgusting 

and not a league out there trusts any of the CORALITION


so next time get your facts straight before spouting they left because of me 



UTC +0:00
djmoody
10 February, 2016, 8:53 PM UTC

Not a particularly truthful post Silver.

Forget all the other if's and buts - how weak would it make us look if we allowed you to totally disrespect us, ignore our agreements and take whatever beacons you wanted regardless.

In a game where perception of power is just as important as actual power we have to be seen to hold people to the agreements they make with us. Otherwise everyone will see us as weak and use us as a doormat. I don't see that we really had a lot of choice to be honest.

A good leader would have understood that, on it's own that should have been enough for you to honour your agreements, even if honesty and integrity wasn't enough for you.

Bilks had it made, OK relationship with KT, peace agreement with Coraltion in place (with ground work laid by your captains to repair the relationship). Bilks could have grown and flourished for a long time to come. But for some reason only known to you, you decided to throw that all away.

Like I said before, you can only poke the bear so many times, crying now because it bit you is just childish.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
mindful
10 February, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC
Such difference in posts. test and djmoody is giving alot of important strategic information about decisions in a wargame like Stormfall. And keeping the flame at a low and good level. Silverhammer your post just reek of vileness in a rpg way. Some slander. Can you please give information. Is it correct description on how you broke the agreement? And to be honest from my viewpoint of reading your text it looks like your captains did not want to fight your war. Which means test is more correct then you about that also. So I do not see that you have a single argument against test. Can you please write again and bring something up?
UTC +0:00
Edilio Lazaro Lazaro
11 February, 2016, 12:56 AM UTC
From my point view, this is a war game, only cowards use many leagues to hit a league for subjugate this, ok, some peoples claims this as strategy but for me is just that: cowards actions from "big" leagues.
UTC +0:00
devnullicus
11 February, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

In war, there is only win, or do not win.  It's pretty binary.

That being said, "winning" in a game like this usually requires a lot of diplomacy and at least a perception by others that you will stick by your word, once given.  Treaties can be broken, of course, but there are consequences to your reputation to such things.  What happened to BILSKIRNIR is a prime example of what happens when you can't keep your word and ignore treaties that you've made.  Not only do other leagues turn on you, but your own members will desert you and your league will fall out of power pretty fast.


In the real world, one of the prime functions of governments is to enforce agreements (treaties, internal laws, trade agreements, etc).  To that end, they create internal security (police) and external enforcement (armies) to make sure that they CAN enforce their own (and others') agreements.  Leagues and alliances of leagues, much like governments, must enforce their own treaties or the consequences of breaking them have no meaning.  In order for treaties to have any meaning, they MUST be enforced by those involved or all suffer a larger amount of war, banditry (random beacon attacks) and civil unrest (members leaving).   If this means that all the leagues in an alliance must get involved to help enforce something, that's simply a requirement of being a part of the alliance and yes, GOOD STRATEGY.


Remember also, that while other leagues' perception of yours is important, your own members' perceptions are also critical in making a successful highly-ranked league.  By breaking treaties that were previously agreed to, the damage to BILSKIRNIR is pretty severe as not only do other leagues no longer trust them (and thus they are now relegated to the status of unprotected and free-to-hit for raids, beacons, etc), their own members are leaving (or have left) en-masse, thus reducing even further their ability to protect their investments and members.


Honestly, I don't think I've seen a more clear-cut example of why it's a bad idea to break treaties in a while.  An object lesson for all, imho.


War never changes, just the players and those on top :)



If you ever want to know how the gods feel about money, simply look at who they choose to give it to [Caine Black Knife]
UTC -8:00
Edilio Lazaro Lazaro
11 February, 2016, 1:51 AM UTC
i'm agree with you in many things, but a league dont need treaties that push you agaist with the wall. This a war game a very soon i'll see move the top, and big leagues fall :D
UTC +0:00
devnullicus
11 February, 2016, 2:01 AM UTC

If you can back that up, I'll be the first to congratulate you.  Good luck :)


As for treaties that push you against the wall...well, THERE is where it behooves your leaders to think hard about treaties before agreeing to them and make sure it doesn't do that.  A treaty that walls you in is only helpful to your enemies.  However, if you DO find yourself in that position, it's almost always better to at least attempt to renegotiate before simply ignoring the treaty.  How a league marshal handles that situation says as much about their skill as anything else.
If you ever want to know how the gods feel about money, simply look at who they choose to give it to [Caine Black Knife]
UTC -8:00
test
11 February, 2016, 4:30 AM UTC

SILVERHAMMER said:


TEST 

again misinformed 

i booted some of those captains for making derogatory and inflammatory comments about a fellow captains sexuality 

The way I remember it (which might be wrong, but I think is right), is that you only demoted, not booted them after one of your other captain quit your league because you wouldn't do anything about it.  Then they left of their own accord.

one who happens to be in your league 

so i stood up for a longtime captain of mine 

who still left to follow his dreams of being a lackey to self imposed tyrant like your self 

Funny, for a moment there I almost thought you had a heart, then you went an insulted a long time captain and instead of saying "thanks for the long tenure here at BILSK, I wish you the best with your new endvors" or something along those lines...   What a big man you are SILVER, good job making fun of people who have served BILSK for quite some time.  It's no supprise that he's not in your league anymore after seeing just the smallest snipit of how you treat others.

I guess it just really goes to show what type of character you have.

so be it 

others left due to the threat of being assaulted by about 6 big leagues 

Another bold claim - care to back that up with some proof or does this stuff just fall off your forked tongue with reckless abandon?

because none of you 

especially KOC 

and GOA 

have the balls to take us on by themselves 

Oh SILVER, how short your memory is.  Let me bring back one of your famous messages about assaulting others with a team of leagues:


[07:15] SILVERHAMMER : ATTENTION ALL WARRIORS AND SHEILDMAIDENS 

I HAVE WORKED HARD ON THIS AND IT CREATED A CONFEDRACY BIG ENOUGH TO TAKE ON KNIGHTS TEMPLAR AND KOC/KOK/DESTINY AT THE SAME TIME YOU DIONT LIKE THE THIRD OPTION GO PLAY WITH THEM 

PRETTY SIMPLE 

YOU DONT LIKE THE RULES AND ALLIANCE GO JOIN THE PURPLE F.U.C.K.IN. PONIES AND DO WHATEVER YOU WANT 

SILVERHAMMER

so you guys resort to your old worn out tactic of bullying and using your lackey leagues to do softening blows 

Your really gonna cry using the server buzzword "bullying"?  When a team of leagues work together to take down the person who has lied time and time again to them, it sounds like a proper alliance working as one unit, as it should.  

I thought your BC was the thing of legends, the thing big enough to take on all the big leagues on the server at the same time.

Or was that just another lie you were spouting off to your league...

and having one of my actual allies attack me also 

good show 

your form of diplomacy is absolutly disgusting 

and not a league out there trusts any of the CORALITION

SILVER, you using the word "trust" is hillarious, I can't think of anyone that is less qualified than you to throw that word around.


so next time get your facts straight before spouting they left because of me 


Funny you tell me to get my "facts straight", let me remind you what I did say, not what you state I said (you really can't help yourself with all of these lies can you?).  This proof is especially easy because it's in my other post just up above : "Was it everyone else causing the issues, or is it possible that there might be an issue at the top that all the subordinates could no longer work with?"



I'm sure you've got a couple more lies up your sleeve.  I can't wait to hear what you have to say next...

UTC +0:00
Mehnslayer
11 February, 2016, 5:11 AM UTC
Woah, I aint messing with Test.
E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace
UTC +10:00
jumy
11 February, 2016, 7:36 PM UTC

SILVERHAMMER said:


TEST 

again misinformed 

i booted some of those captains for making derogatory and inflammatory comments about a fellow captains sexuality 

one who happens to be in your league 

so i stood up for a longtime captain of mine 

who still left to follow his dreams of being a lackey to self imposed tyrant like your self 

so be it 

others left due to the threat of being assaulted by about 6 big leagues 

because none of you 

especially KOC 

and GOA 

have the balls to take us on by themselves 

so you guys resort to your old worn out tactic of bullying and using your lackey leagues to do softening blows 

and having one of my actual allies attack me also 

good show 

your form of diplomacy is absolutly disgusting 

and not a league out there trusts any of the CORALITION


so next time get your facts straight before spouting they left because of me 



unforgiven 4-5-6 (up little time in their profile quoted +600 people)? kt4-5? other allied + too many alts (this for all)? and it is clear that they all work for one league and disturb others  and you bothered with the very clear and precise terms of other leagues? 

sorry if someone tries to play regularly and working together for protection..... which side is bullying? 

make your game or that of others?

The truth hurts
UTC +12:00
1659515 users registered; 33281 topic; 251835 posts; our newest member:ariel53