Upgrade Your Buildings to Even Higher Levels!

101 Reply
RealBob
27 November, 2015, 8:47 PM UTC

Game companies have to pay the bills, just like any other company, and we all understand that.  These F2P/P2W games always favor a paying customer over the non-paying customer, and that's appropriate.  Some decisions, however, are unwise or ill-considered.  Sketches is both.


Unwise decisions cost the company in the bottom-line.  Ill-considered decisions do, too, but they are a long-term effect that often doesn't elicit a cause-and-effect line drawn between them due to the length of time between the cause and the effect.


Sketches are nice.  You can upgrade many things in your home city with them.  I don't want to address every possible upgrade, so I'll just concetrate on one.  An upgraded acropolis can protect your supplies from raiding.  It isn't much, really, when you consider the amount of resources needed for later upgrades.  The raiding of home cities already terrifically favors a spending customer.  The paying customer can buy in seconds what a grinder takes a month to build, and that's only after the grinder has been playing for months since a beginning player doesn't have those build options.  Hence, a paying customer almost always wins in PVP contests, and when wars break out between players the non-payee almost always loses.  Now that paying customer can protect their supplies even more.  They can steal resources from the non-paying customer and the non-paying customer cannot take them back because the paying customer's acropolis holds so much more.  In the just the first sketch upgrade the amount protect is 7k of each resources.  This is incredible when you consider that the previous 20 levels combined could only protect 18k each.  And this level of protection os only available to the paying customer.  There is currently no way for a non-paying customer to reasonably gain the same advantage.  Yes, placing in tournaments can earn you drachmas with which to purchase these sketches, but even doing well in tourneys only nets you hundreds of drachmas, and that's not the same level of competition the paying customer advances at.


I think I'll just stop there.  The way money affects this game is the proverbial snowball effect.  Once again, I get it that a business thrives on paying customers.  The thing that I think attracts a lot of players to this game, though, is the huge amount of players to compete with.  If the non=paying customers are pressed out of any reasonable competition then they will leave.  That, in turn, takes some of the draw that paying customers like...the big game feel.


I could be wrong.  I'll come back and check in a year or two and see how Plarium is doing.
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Milles
28 November, 2015, 3:31 AM UTC

As i said, I for one am not disappointed by the option to increase the levels of buildings for sketches (question is what is the reasonable rate at which those sketches should be traded for drachmas).

What i do not like much much more is option to boost the offence/deffence by so much! For a player like me, who spend alot of time playing this game and try to train and gain as much army as he can and not risk too much, this new option diminished my effort by quite a bit a therefore it is ruining my game experience by a lot (since im not the coiner and if i buy boost for GPs, there is still 10% difference).

I do not take the argument, that there is not a difference if a player buy a boost or just more units, because for 400 drachmas you do not by a unit, which multiply your offence by so much and in most of the games, such boost would probably ruin all the rules for combat and as my coalition member said, it is now even more riskier to put defensive army to protect your city. This new option is just too much.
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Taranis
29 November, 2015, 11:46 AM UTC

AHAHHA.. ...... Why don't ask directly the account number of our banks and open an R.I.D. in your favor ?!.... ..... AHHAHAHA

Rather, why don't use your intelligence and your professionalism to make the game more balanced and make emerge the skill of the players rather than the size of their wallet ?!

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Uncle Junior
30 November, 2015, 9:05 AM UTC

Leonidas I think you already know my comment on this topic, you brought another feature that only benefits drachma players and still ignored real issues that the game has. You greedy greedy person. You should take all those new upgrades and stick them up your rear sword holster.

Fix the pantheon reports or we start spamming the forums again and again and fix the game lag because the game became unplayable. No do not start your usual browser and cache bs because the problem isnt there, we all tested it.
 
†terminators†
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alefebvre
1 December, 2015, 4:04 AM UTC

TheElitePhantom said:


Gorgo said:


Great Meant to be restrictive means MORE POWER TO COINERS... GREAT JOB

It could also mean less power if you think about it.

Surely you can't be serious moderator. Coiners rule now. We have no chance as it is. This, which only they can afford, will put them in a position in weeks that would take normal people years or even a lifetime to get to, if they didn't bail first. I spent some money today to deal with massive losses that our pan took from a coiner coalition, taking advantage of the 75% revival discount. Worst investment ever. I will play until the drachmas run out, then I'm going back to Diablo III.


Why not have a server for coiners, and another for normal folks, since they're completely different playing fields? It's like sending a bunch of 8-10 year-olds to the Olympics and wondering why the don't produce medals!


And, BTW, where's the thumbs DOWN button so we can vote appropriately to your ridiculous replies? "Less power"? Really? Are you kidding me?????
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Greed oft o'er reaches itself
1 December, 2015, 11:55 AM UTC

Plarium,


For simpliity, why not make these sketches available for purchase with gps. Something like same rate 1-1...100gps buys 100 sketches or whatever.

Something like the above would still not make it too quick and easy to complete buildings and would be similar to offering sketches as a direct reward in tournaments.


That way people can decide to turn their rewards to either buildings, agreements or both, makes for more choice. Also players that have signed all agreements and are not in so much of a mad rush for gps anymore, will then have their tournament interests rekindled, because they can trade gps into sketches for the upgrades.

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Psychokiller
1 December, 2015, 12:31 PM UTC

I'm I the only one who can't log anymore since the last update?

They can't hold to make more and more useless updates that only brings problems...

Anyway...
Don't piss me off! I'm actually running out of places to hide bodies...
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No_one
1 December, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

All (or most, at least) free to play games offer some advantages to people who purchase some services.

Of course, that's expected; They have to pay the bills too.


But the line is, or has to be that someone who choose to go the free-to-play road is able to make it, given enough time spent/dedication in the game.

Sadly, this update doesn't really allow that.


The first level of ressources building cost 120 sketches ( 180 for farms ). So, to upgrade your 15 ressources buildings just 1 level each, that's 2100 sketches. At the cheapest price ( if you buy in bulk ) sketches cost 10 drachmas each. So that's 21000 drachmas.

Let's assume the next level are the same price ( they probably are even more expensive, but keep it simple ). 5 levels = 105000 drachmas.

A good hard-working player who has all 4 unit queues going 24-7 can get MAYBE 1000 dramchas a week. Just a rough figure. 

(Of course you could get 10k+ in ONE week if you already have a large army, but you can't do it every week. We're talking about what you can get regularly here ).

So, 105000 drachmas at 1k a week, that's 2 years. Just for your ressources buildings. Not all buildings are a "must" to have, but a few are. The ressources, the temples that give you +% ressources, the infirmary, which I assume will revive more units at later levels...

So you're looking at 2 or 3 years of dedicated gaming (if you don't raid much and don't keep your units queues going 24/7, you make even less drachmas ). 

Now you say... Ok, so you can make it?

Yes, you can, if you spend 3 years on a game ONLY FOR THAT. 
But in these 3 years, Plarium will, undoubtly, add something else. Because big coiners will buy all these upgrades in days, weeks or months... and then will be looking for something else to throw their credit card at.

Plarium will certainly obliges. 


So if they release something as big in, say, 6 months from now... Well, you just made 1/6th of the drachmas you needed, and now you have something else to worry about. You'll never "get everything done". You'll have to choose in which way you'll accept to be gimped against other players. And you will never ever make it, unless they don't release anything new to be bought with drachmas for 3 years, and you know it's not happening.


So you never make it to the end. That's what cause F2P players to drop a game and call it P2W. 

I mean it already had big P2W elements ( you can just buy armies with $, that's something ) but the only way a game can be called F2P is if you can play for free and get "to the max".

Before that update, you could. I started the game a bit after the start, but now all my "free" buildings are upgraded to the ressources-only max level, my temple of xenia has a few levels already, I'm getting there. And (before that update) I WOULD get there at some point. Doesn't matter if it's days, weeks, months... I would come to a point where I have absolutely everything a player can get. All the buildings, a very large army, everything.

That's how the hard work/dedication works for an f2p game. And it would still work if they were priced more reasonably. This update could've been great if they were priced a bit lower, so you could reasonably hope to get them with the events, over a reasonable period of time... 


But now, even hard work and dedication won't cut it, because it would take years to get the drachmas you need without buying them for real money. And keep in mind that I was really conservative with my "3 years" figure. I didn't account for price increases between levels, and for a lot of other buildings that are usefull but that I skipped because they're not absolutely vital. 

That "3 years" could easily be 5 or even 10 years.

A decade of dedicated gaming just to get what people can buy in a hour with a big credit card.

On the websites, the games are all advertised as "free".

But if you play "for free" you now can't ever hope to get everything.

That's like buying a car, but once it's yours, you see that it doesn't have wheels. Hey, it's still a car, no one did anythign dishonest! But it's not exactly what you thought you were buying.


So you can only play a portion of the game for free, and as it's a multiplayer games, you'll constantly be up against people who DO have everything. Even if they did not put any effort into the game, they can have everything. All they need is $. 

You can raid/carefully play for 6 hours a day for years, and you won't be on par to go against someone who just throw money at problems. 

This isn't a Free-to-play game anymore, and this isn't an "hard working can help you get shit done" game anymore.
This is a game for super casual amateurs ( who don't care what they have or have not ) and coiners.

The #1 group of players this update screwed off is the hard-working playerbase. Those who log in everyday and raid everyday and all that.

Amateurs don't really care if those upgrades are too expensive, they're just working toward their farms lvl 10, they don't even know what's up there and will never get there.

And coiners, well of course that's heaven for them. They can just throw more money at the screen in order to win against players who don't.




This update spits in the collective face of players who have spent hundreds or even thousands of hours in the game, thinking they would "make it" at some point if they played hard and smart enough.


You just told them that unless they draw the credit card like the rest of them...

No, they won't "make it". 


Ever.






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john_zed
1 December, 2015, 7:38 PM UTC

Thank you Archon No_One for explaining things beautifully. 

Hopefully after the Sketches are made available as reward for different tournaments (which is a possibility as Leonidas told earlier), all the hard working players will be benefited & get the chance to make the upgrades (slowly). 
Have Fun :)
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Greed oft o'er reaches itself
1 December, 2015, 7:54 PM UTC

Stop kiddin folk with 'hopefully'.  You'll know fine well the sketches will be made reward and that was the plan, just hold them back a little while to gain some purchases. Players can read plarium's next move like a book.


I'm just waiting for the spiel that the gods have listened to what the people want and have decided to do it.

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No_one
1 December, 2015, 8:20 PM UTC

john_zed said:


Thank you Archon No_One for explaining things beautifully. 

Hopefully after the Sketches are made available as reward for different tournaments (which is a possibility as Leonidas told earlier), all the hard working players will be benefited & get the chance to make the upgrades (slowly). 

I hope this works fine :)

And yes, I still expect it to be slow. It has to be, or people would have no reason to buy anything in game ever, and the game dies. It's just about drawing the line between "slow" and "impossible"! 

Someone who raids every single day and participate in every event to get drachmas with whatever he built during the week, should be able to, eventually, get to the point where he has everything he needs in game. ( Which means, before the next thing to buy ). Right now of course you 'can' get it at some point, but at this point there will be other things released that you'd have to buy too, so it's impossible to make it without $. 

Well, let's hope sketches are made available as reward or something like that, so it goes from "impossible" to "possible for dedicated players" :)



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john_zed
1 December, 2015, 8:50 PM UTC

necab15-games said:


You'll know fine well the sketches will be made reward and that was the plan, just hold them back a little while to gain some purchases. Players can read plarium's next move like a book.

Nice to hear that you can read Plarium! Please teach me that if you have spare time. I'll appreciate it.

Have Fun :)
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john_zed
1 December, 2015, 8:58 PM UTC
No_one said:

It's just about drawing the line between "slow" and "impossible"! 

& Slow is better than Impossible for everybody. 
Have Fun :)
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Milles
2 December, 2015, 7:44 AM UTC

Totaly agree with what NO_ONE said. Dedicated players are trying to get to the point, where they can match the top players and there should be at least some balance between those who invest a lot of time (and some money) with those who invest a huge amount of money.

What i found attractive in this game in the first place was broad variety of units with unique graphics and most importanly a freakish amount of ways to pursue and improve your whole army and city, that is what i call a perfect gameplay and is something most free to play don't have.

Even some of the last changes were awsome in this way and improved the gameplay by a lot. Daily quests with better rewards, Warfares and Tournaments with even more rewards, even the rule of always getting units when attacking persion positions helped. That's why i would love to see more achivements with higher levels and according rewards or more units for example, both means more gameplay.

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Basileus Leonidas
Administrator
2 December, 2015, 12:19 PM UTC
Milles said:

Totaly agree with what NO_ONE said. Dedicated players are trying to get to the point, where they can match the top players and there should be at least some balance between those who invest a lot of time (and some money) with those who invest a huge amount of money.

What i found attractive in this game in the first place was broad variety of units with unique graphics and most importanly a freakish amount of ways to pursue and improve your whole army and city, that is what i call a perfect gameplay and is something most free to play don't have.

Even some of the last changes were awsome in this way and improved the gameplay by a lot. Daily quests with better rewards, Warfares and Tournaments with even more rewards, even the rule of always getting units when attacking persion positions helped. That's why i would love to see more achivements with higher levels and according rewards or more units for example, both means more gameplay.

What achievements exactly do you want to see?
War doesn't determine who is right - only who is left.
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Psychokiller
2 December, 2015, 12:39 PM UTC

HAHAHA! xD

Drachmas to upgrade buildings?!

And say it way written ''Play for free'' when I joined the game for the first time... HAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Now only people with big credit cards ( money players ) can hope to get far in that game, others will just stop playing once they will understand that wihout putting money on it, they won't be able to stand against money players.


I can understand plarium needs  to make the game profitable and all the stuff... But we already know that are many poeple that will spend their money on the game without having to push them... All I see is that, now, plarium is pushing poeple to spend their money, when they don't wanted to in the first time but who are forced to if they want to still play that game.

Don't piss me off! I'm actually running out of places to hide bodies...
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Milles
2 December, 2015, 3:27 PM UTC

To Basileus Leonidas:

Well that's not easy to say, since i do not know what is not hard to implement and what will be balanced before its implemented. What i could think of, then more levels of those which are easy to max out (resources etc.), than new ones for completing divine quests, for raiding positions or even archons, killing units worth of power points or specific number of each persian units, for number of mixed potions, number of GPs, Denariis and scrolls produced or earned, experiences earned, the options are limitless almost, since the game has endless mechanics.

But with like 15 levels of each, so that high levels can participate as well with according rewards of units/resources.

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Devlin_Stone
3 December, 2015, 7:49 AM UTC

Since the persian position changes, it is hard to muster the energy and interest to even swear about another push to make this game Play to Win.

This is just another slap in the face for the daily player rendering them irrelevant in the face of the player with the fattest wallet.

The game interface has mutated so much that every screen has a spend drachma short cut button right next to the main button, making it far to easy to accidently spend drachs on trivial items.

All the risk has been taken out of the game if you have the money to withdraw troops at anytime, instantly build a building or buy up any troop and champion without limits.

I guess one day soon the free to play players will just give up and then the coiners will get bored with the ghost cities left on the map.

At that point it will be a mercy killing when plarium shuts down the servers and shifts it's developers onto it's other games.


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Basileus Leonidas
Administrator
3 December, 2015, 10:13 AM UTC
Milles said:

To Basileus Leonidas:

Well that's not easy to say, since i do not know what is not hard to implement and what will be balanced before its implemented. What i could think of, then more levels of those which are easy to max out (resources etc.), than new ones for completing divine quests, for raiding positions or even archons, killing units worth of power points or specific number of each persian units, for number of mixed potions, number of GPs, Denariis and scrolls produced or earned, experiences earned, the options are limitless almost, since the game has endless mechanics.

But with like 15 levels of each, so that high levels can participate as well with according rewards of units/resources.

Hello, Archon! Are you suggesting new levels for other buildings?
War doesn't determine who is right - only who is left.
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Milles
3 December, 2015, 6:06 PM UTC
No no, the entire post was about achievements. So new levels to those achievements, which most of the active players have maxed out (resources, upgraded agreements) and a new ones entirely (for raiding, mixing potions etc. as i said previously). Or you can just make all achievements (old and new ones) up to like lvl 15 or 20 so that people can have a new things to pursue :-D.
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