Persian Positions - Helpful Tips and Tools

14 Replies
kjm
15 February, 2017, 9:55 AM UTC

Hello everyone. For new players, Persian positions can be fun. But they can also be confusing and dangerous to do. It is easy to lose many troops and not know what to do next. When I started, I had many questions. For example


*How strong is the Persian position? *Which troops should I send? *How many troops should I send?

*When should I do Persian positions? *What are some strategies to do Persian positions?

*Some players posted about ‘payout’ and ‘payout loan’. *What do ‘payout’ and ‘payout loan’ mean’?

*Why sometimes I get many troops for the reward but other times only a few troops or nothing?

*What are special mission levels? How are special mission levels different from regular Persian positions?

*What level should I do to get General infantry items, heavy infantry items, phalanx items, or cavalry items?

*Does anyone have some special advice or tools I can use to do the Persian positions better?


I am still learning. But I want to share some information that I learned with you. It can help make Persian positions easier to do and maybe help you get better results too.



Tip #1 - Know the Persian position strength potential. Each Persian position has a level. When you open your Oracle, you can see the level above the position. Each position has a basic offense or defense strength value. It means how much offense or defense you must attack with at the minimum. Player Fastred posted a very helpful chart of this information. You can see how strong the Persian position can be from the levels 1~150. Here is the link http://prnt.sc/c1lkpg . This can help you check if you have enough troop strength to do the Persian position. How do you find your troop strength? When you click to attack a Persian position, you must then choose the troops you want to send. You move the slider left or right for more or less troops. When you do that, you can see on the bottom right ‘offense’ and ‘defense’. That is your troop strength. So for offense Persian positions, the ‘offense’ value should be strong. For defense Persian positions, the ‘defense’ value should be strong.



Tip#2 - Check the Persian position before you attack. Unfortunately you can’t send a scout to check the Persian position. But you can send just regular troops. For offense positions, just send 1 hero or 1 solider. For defense positions, just send 1 javelineer. After the battle, you can see the report. In the report, you can see what kind of troops and how many troops are at the Persian position. Here is a link to see an offense position report example http://prntscr.com/e8w9t8 . Here is a link to see a defense position report example http://prntscr.com/e8wac2 .



Tip#3 - Know the differences between Persian troops, and know about Persian troop offense/defense position weaknesses.


There are 4 kinds of Persian troops –Dailamite (light infantry), Persian Archers (heavy infantry), Immortals (phalanx), and Asvaran (cavalry). The game uses the same troops for both offense and defense Persian positions. But each Persian troop has different attack and defense values against your troops. Here is a link to this information http://wiki.plarium.com/index.php?title=Persian_Units:SWOE


For offense positions (red), the Persian troop is strongest when fighting the same kind of troop from you. For example, a Persian Dailamite (light infantry) is strongest when fighting your hoplite or soldier (light infantry). But it is weaker when fighting your heavy infantry, phalanx or cavalry. Also, the Persian offense position is weakest when you attack the kind of troops fewest in number. For example, your report shows many Dailamite, some Persian Archers, a few Immortals, and only 1 Asvaran. In this situation, the Persian position is very strong against your infantry attack, strong against your heavy infantry attack, weak against your phalanx attack, and weakest against your cavalry attack. Here is a link to help you calculate the Persian offense position strength from the report. It can also suggest what offense troops would be strongest against the position. http://spartapositions.blogspot.kr/p/offense-bgs-positions-method-in-offense.html .


For defense positions (green), the Persian troops have different strength values against your troops. You can see the differences in the wiki chart. Also, the Persian defense position is weakest when you defend against the kind of troops largest in number. This is the opposite of doing Persian offense positions. For example, your report shows some Dailamite, (light infantry), only 1 Persian Archer (heavy infantry), many Immortals (phalanx), and a few Asvaran (cavalry). In this situation, your defense is strongest if you defend with phalanx, strong with light infantry, weak with cavalry, and weakest with just heavy infantry. Remember that your defense troops are stronger against similar Persian troops (your defense infantry is stronger against Persian infantry, your defense heavy infantry is stronger against Persian heavy infantry, your defense phalanx is stronger against Persian phalanx, your defense cavalry is stronger against Persian cavalry). Here is a link to help calculate the Persian defense position strength from the report. It can suggest what defense troops would be strongest against the position too http://spartapositions.blogspot.kr/p/defense-bgs-positions-method-in-defense.html .


This information can help you decide what troops to use. This is good if you want to clear the position quickly but not lose many troops. Also, if the Persian position calculator shows that you can use two kinds of troops to get similar results, then send the lower level troops first in one attack and send the higher level troops later in another attack. For example, the calculator shows heavy infantry and phalanx could be good. So send some heavy infantry troops first. Then send some phalanx troops second. You can see the Persian troop strength in the calculator. So it can tell you how much strength you need to send. This way you can clear the position. You can also save some higher level phalanx troops but get the same result.



Tip #4 - Choose a strategy that is good for you. There are many reasons to do Persian positions. Sometimes you can get daily rewards from Persian position missions or bigger rewards from Persian position tournaments. You can also get special General items that can make your troops stronger. You can also get XP, resources and sometimes extra troops. You can use Persian positions to sacrifice troops quickly if you need to reduce your grain consumption too. You can also use Persian positions to sacrifice lower level troops (light infantry, heavy infantry) for higher level troops (phalanx, cavalry) with special rewards that you get once in a while. It is important to choose a goal that you want. Then, decide how many troops you can sacrifice that day or that week. If the goal is possible, do it. If the goal is not possible or too risky at that time, then wait. Build more troops and take a rest. The game will give you many chances to do these things in the future. Like the poker card game, it is easy to want to bet more money and continue to bet money even when you shouldn’t. So choose your goal carefully and play smart. Player Angel Dorantes posted very good information about this. Here is the link


http://wiki.plarium.com/index.php?title=The_Persian_Positions_Handbook



Tip #5 - Know the payout system. The payout system is how the game rewards players for doing the Persian positions. The payout can be small or big, but it is usually big. Sometimes you do a Persian position and you can get a few troops back as a small reward. Sometimes you do some Persian positions and after a while you get many troops –usually high level troops- as a big reward. Each reward has a resource value. After you clear a Persian position, you will get a report. In the report, you will see some resources you got from the Persian position at the top left. You will also see troop rewards you got at the top right. For each Persian position you do, you need to calculate the reward resource value. This is [resources gained –top left- + troop resource value]. What is the troop resource value exactly? Here is a link to see the resource value of each troop http://prntscr.com/e8j20s . For example, you do a Persian position. You get a small reward of 100 bronze, 100 wood, 100 grain, 5 Spartan hoplites and 50 javelineers. The resource value would be [100+100+100+(5x3520)+(50x120)] = 23900. For another example, after doing many Persian positions, you get a big reward. For example, 8000 bronze, 8000 wood, 8000 grain, 30 Mounted Peltasts and 10 Macedonia cavalry. The resource value would be [8000+8000+8000+(30x7500)+(10x19000)] = 439000.


The ‘payout’ begins when you get a big reward. The ‘payout’ to you is like a loan from a bank. The loan is the resource value of the big reward. So in this situation above, the ‘loan’ is 439000 (resources). It means the game lends you 439000 worth of resources and troops. But at some time in the future, you need to pay back the ‘loan’. How do you pay back the loan? Each troop you lose has a resource value. When you lose a troop, you subtract the resource value from the loan. For example, you clear a Persian position and lose 1 hoplite. The resource value of 1 hoplite is 520. So you paid back 520 resources to the loan. The loan is now 439000 – 520 = 438480. This means, you still need to lose 438480 more resources minimum to pay back the loan. What if you get a small reward after you get your big payout? If you get a small reward, you must add the resource value to the loan. It means the game gives you more resources for your loan. But it also means the loan gets bigger. For example, you get a small reward of 10 soldiers. Each soldier has a resource value of 300. So the loan is now 438480 + (10x300) = 441480. Is there any fee or charge you must pay for the loan? Yes. The game charges a fee on the loan. No-one knows how much it is exactly. But players posted it is about 10-30% usually, sometimes more sometimes less. So in the situation above, we could expect a minimum fee of 10%. This means you also need to pay a minimum (439000 x .0.1) = 43900 more. That is the charge for the loan. So the new loan value would be 441480 + 43900 = 485380 minimum. This means, in this situation before you can get your next big ‘payout’, you must first pay back the loan + fee by sacrificing troops worth 485380 resources minimum.


There are also some things to remember. First, legendary, champion and imperial troops don’t have the same resource value for Persian positions. Some players posted that they have less or only a little value for Persian positions. So it is better not to use them. Second, troops you lose to do special missions don’t count. This means, every 5 levels after level 20, you can get a special mission quest. You can see the mission quests in the Oracle at the ‘mission’ tab. Here is a link to show the location of the mission quest tab http://prntscr.com/e8ywx1 These are different and give you special one-time rewards. The rewards don’t change the loan. Also, the troops you lose to do the special mission don’t change the loan. Third, when you get a big payout, write down the position level. Later, when the loan is almost finished, try to do Persian positions at that level or close to that level. This can help get a similar payout. If you attack positions higher than the last payout level position, it can take more time before you get your next big payout. Third, each Persian position has 4 color bars below. Red, orange, orange-yellow, and yellow. Red means the position is very strong with many troops. Yellow means the position is weak with few troops. Before you pay back the loan, attack a few positions at the last payout level. But don’t kill them. Send small attacks. Lower the color bar to yellow. Then save them. When the loan + fee is almost paid, do the high level (1-bar) yellow positions. If you are lucky, you lose only some troops after the loan is paid. But you can get your next reward. If the reward doesn’t come, try a few lower level positions. Lose some troops. Then do a high level (1-bar) yellow position again close to your last payout level. The next payout will come and a new loan will start. It may take a few times to do. Last, decide what kind of troops you want to get from the next payout. If you want to get more defense troops, then do defense Persian positions when the loan is almost paid. If you want to get more offense troops, then do offense Persian positons when the loan is almost paid. Here is a good link about the Persian payout system. It also has good tips how to do Persian positions. http://gsparta.weebly.com/uploads/4/0/3/7/40376377/sparta_war_of_empires_-_persian_positions_spreadsheet_guide_v2_(1)_(1).pdf .



Tip #6 - Know the Persian General item levels. Each time you win at a Persian position, you can get a special item. There are 4 types of offense items and 4 types of defense items. In the General screen, click on the item to use it (equip) or improve it (upgrade). Sometimes you can find chests with an item inside. Sometimes you can find keys to open chests. You can also buys keys and chest packages in the market if you have enough gold drachmas. If you want to get items only from Persian positions, then here are the levels to do. Persian positions level 1-20 can give items that make your light infantry stronger. Persian positions level 21-40 can give items that make your light infantry and heavy infantry stronger. Persian position level 41-60 can give items that make your light infantry, heavy infantry, and phalanx stronger. Persian positions level 61 or higher can give items that make your light infantry, heavy infantry, phalanx and cavalry stronger. Remember that the higher the Persian position level is, the harder it is. You will need more troops to do it. Also, after you go up to do higher level positions, you will get fewer lower level positions the next time. So, when you try to get General items, be sure you are ready for that change.



Tip #7 - Learn from other player experiences. Check the Sparta forum discussion page. It has many good posts about Persian position strategies and player achievements. You can also post your questions to other players and moderators, maybe to get some help that way too. Also, check the Plarium wiki, Youtube, Facebook, and the web. You can find new Persian position updates, comments and links. For example, here is a link to the Plarium Persion position masters wiki page https://plarium.com/en/strategy-games/sparta-war-of-empires/mmo-masters/persian-positions/ . Here is a link to a very helpful Persian position Excel spreadsheet tool. It can help you with troop, loan and payout calculations easily https://workupload.com/file/XegSieZM .


From my experience, I can recommend a few basic things. First, when you do the Persian positions, use your special items. They make your troops stronger and you can sometimes get better results. For example, use the dominion activator, sanctum elixirs, phylarch bonuses, GPS bonuses, General item bonuses, and other special items from the market. If it is possible, try to use the items for a PP event and a PVP event at the same time. I mean, try to get maximum benefit from the items for 2 events at the same time. Second, try to do the low level Persian positions each day. For example, easy levels 1-10. If you send your regular army, then you will probably not lose any troops or lose only a few small troops. You get items that you can ‘break’ into pieces. These pieces you need to upgrade General items and make them better. Some players go too quickly to do high level Persian positions. They get good General items but they don’t have enough pieces to upgrade them. Then they have difficulty to get enough pieces. The Persian positions they have are only high level. It means they must lose a lot of troops to get a few pieces. So, when you start to do Persian positions, spend some time (a few weeks, months...) to build up pieces from easy low level positions. Third, try to do new level Persian positions and quest missions during XP tournaments. You can get extra XP, so you can get more points and rewards at that time. Be patient. Wait for the chance. Also check the Persian position tournament reward page carefully. See how many tournament points you need exactly to get each reward. Set a goal that is possible for you to do. Then do Persian positions until you get enough points for that reward. If you do more than that, you lose troops without getting a reward. So that is not good. Fourth, try to clear positions from low to high. I mean, start with lower positions and go up, if possible. Save high yellow one-bar positions for last. Those you can do when the loan is almost paid or paid. Fifth, make a Persian position tournament point chart. Write how many points for each Persian position level you do. This can help you make a plan later. You can better guess how many points you can get from the Persian positions you have. Then you can see what rewards are possible or not possible. Here is a link to an example http://prntscr.com/e8ybsj .Last, before you try to get the big ‘payout’, decide if you want to get many resources too or not. Some players prefer to make the warehouses and grain houses full first before the payout. Then you can get more troops in the payout and less resources. But if you need resources for agreements or building upgrades at that time, don’t worry about it. Take some troops and get more resources in the payout instead. Both choices can be good. It depends on your situation.



Good luck!  


UTC +9:00
Xena
Moderator
15 February, 2017, 2:55 PM UTC

Long post but really comprehensive! Amazing job there KJM! 

I think many players will find it very useful and if they follow your advice and gain some experience with Xerxes big rewards are on their way! 

I'd like to point out a couple of things.

  1. I personally have my granaries and warehouses full when I play Xerxes. I prefer to get my payout in troops than in resources. It's better in my opinion cause even if you need those resources for buildings or agreements you can either raid to get them or go to the market to apply them (supposing that you have resources at the market from personal and coalition quests).
  2. Also I play missions during XP tournaments since the points you get don't count at regular position tournaments. It's a fact that you win troops at missions no matter what. But in order to get the maximun payout with the fewest losses you need to:
  • Kill the offensive missions with offensive cavalry units (such as macedonians, agema etc). I use macs since I get 3 for free everyday from the coalition quests. Some don't agree with that but missions are a good chance to get many troops.
    Here is an offensive misison http://prntscr.com/e92j5s. I use a hero to check the troops that are there. As KJM mentioned above you need to check the persian unit with the minimum number of troops. In this case, as you all can see, those are the Asvarans. That means that you need to use offensive cavalry units in order to have the minimum losses and get the maximum of the reward given. If you use any other type of unit (light infantry, heavy infantry or phalanx) you will have much bigger losses in order to get the same reward given! 

  • Kill the defensive missions with defensive light infantry units (such as javs, psilos or even numidian archers though I don't recommend it cause they are much more expensive so you will waste more resources to train them and it's a little useless using more resources to get the same reward).
    Here is a defensive mission http://prntscr.com/e92v2n. I use a jav to check what troops are there. As KJM mentioned in his post above in the defensive positions or missions you check the persian unit with the maximum number of troops. In this case, as you all can see, the Dailamites take the lead! So basically that means that you need to use light infantry defensive units in order to have the minimum losses and get the maximum reward given from the position! 

Hope you find the above helpful too! 

Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
kjm
16 February, 2017, 1:41 AM UTC

Thank you Xena! It took much time to find the information. Then read and understand it. Also to write the post. Maybe it can be useful. 


*I like your idea about offense Persian position scouting with a hero. They are free to use and easy to get. Very helpful.


*I agree that payout troops are usually better than resources.  Troops take much time to build. So if we take more troops in the payout, we can save much time.

It is good to get resources from raids, especially bot cities. Bot cities usually have many resources to raid. But the owners are not active players. I mean, no troops made, no big upgrades, ... just resource building upgrades. They are very useful. But recently players talked about a bot city problem. When we do raids, many times there are few resources there. This problem started maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago. It means, it is now harder to get raid resources than before.  Maybe it is a bot city bug. I have evidence. I will post about it soon.  Because of the problem, we should get resources other ways. I agree that  the market is good. City production and phylarch bonuses can be good. If we are lucky, other city raids too. Also for now, some Persian position payout resources can help. 


For everyone, I hope that we can get good Persian position results in 2017!

UTC +9:00
Xena
Moderator
17 February, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

Well when I'm out of javs (I build offense so no def there) I use heroes to check the troops on the defensive missions too! 

After all you get them for free so it's not a big deal! 

Regarding the raids yes it's very good getting resources from inactive cities (I find it bad raiding active cities as it can only cause you problems).

If you scout carefully you will find for sure many good farms (and I don't mean bot cities as you mentioned above).

There are many low level cities with much timber and bronze! Don't scout only high level cities as they have more grain than bronze and timber!

If you do you 10 raids daily you get at least 10K of bronze and 10K of timber from each one so that is 100K of each resource.

Well it sure is something and you can build much troops with those resources! And if you scout a little better I'm sure you will find farms with much more timber and bronze! 

Personally due to lack of time I decided to upgrade my forges and lumberyards so that I can increase my bronze and timber production which along with the phylarch bonuses increases your production very much so that you don't have to raid everyday! 

But the fact remains that building troops from all queues (the more days the better) is the desideratum. 

Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Xena
Moderator
17 February, 2017, 3:23 PM UTC
Also increasing the galleys with GPs (if someone is done with the agreements) or even upgrade the port and harbor with sketches really helps a raider get more bronze and timber from a farm. That being said the galley trick is needed here to get more than 50K of resources!
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Ike
5 March, 2017, 10:01 PM UTC

A beginner's question (I've only been in Sparta for a couple of weeks). How long does it take for the positions in your oracle to refresh, after you've taken out all the ones you're strong enough for? Is it a set time, or does something trigger it?


TIA
UTC +5:00
Xena
Moderator
5 March, 2017, 10:32 PM UTC
Ike said:

A beginner's question (I've only been in Sparta for a couple of weeks). How long does it take for the positions in your oracle to refresh, after you've taken out all the ones you're strong enough for? Is it a set time, or does something trigger it?


TIA
The day in the game is reset at 24:00 UTC. You can take out 12 offensive ceilings and 12 defensive ceilings per day. No matter when you take the PP out you will get new position levels after the day resets.
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Ike
5 March, 2017, 10:34 PM UTC
Thanks!
UTC +5:00
Xena
Moderator
5 March, 2017, 11:42 PM UTC

Ike said:


Thanks!

If you need anything else please feel free to ask! 

Hope you enjoy the game!

Good game to you 
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
ethanwwfc2010
6 March, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC
Nice! Crazy!
UTC +0:00
RTL3
11 March, 2017, 11:16 PM UTC

So does it mean you will always loose in total, since you always have to pay the 10-30% fee? So positions good only for changing lower level troops to higher or offense to defense? And getting xp, though does leveling do anything good for you other than giving you some scrools?


Plus i did the calculations and lower level troops have a lot more streanght for the same price, though a lot higher food consomption. So only reason to change to higher level would be lower food consomption?

UTC +1:00
kjm
12 March, 2017, 1:39 AM UTC

RTL3 said:


So does it mean you will always loose in total, since you always have to pay the 10-30% fee? So positions good only for changing lower level troops to higher or offense to defense? And getting xp, though does leveling do anything good for you other than giving you some scrools?


Plus i did the calculations and lower level troops have a lot more streanght for the same price, though a lot higher food consomption. So only reason to change to higher level would be lower food consomption?


Hello RTL3.


I can't say about other players. But I can give you my strategy at the moment.


First, I use a spreadsheet (tip #7 above).  So far I have 32 recorded payouts. Sometimes the fee is small.  Sometimes the fee is large. But I learned that PP tournaments are the best time to do PP  -not any other time. You can do daily missions if you want -if your level is not too high, no problem. Here is why. You can sometimes get back the 'fee' from the tournament reward. For me, my data shows usually the tournament troop reward is close to the fee charge. I don't know if this is some chance or game mechanics. But the data is very close. So, I can get a payout. Then I can sometimes get back the fee from the tournament troop reward (I use attack/defend strength, not resource value to calculate that because Imperial troop resource value is not exact) . We also get other tournament rewards too -gold, scrolls, etc. - but for troops, the result can help us get closer to even. 


Second, yes I exchange light troops and heavy troops at the moment for higher level troops. Here is why. I made many of those troops before. They are fast to make and not expensive. But the phalanx and cavalry can cost alot at one time to make and take so much time. So, I trade the lower troops for higher troops to save time and sometimes cost.   Also I want to reduce grain consumption. PVP tournaments can be better for this. But PP can be good too.  Also PP can be fast way to get some XP during the XP tournaments -also good rewards.    


I try to use PP strength charts. For example, many PP in 20's and 30's can be won easily with light and heavy troops -not always, but many times. I always scout the PP. For offense, I send 1 hero or soldier, then attack the weakest troops (lowest number group or groups). For defense, I send 1 jav, then defend the strongest troops (the largest group or groups).  At higher levels, PP need more higher level troops to battle. So, now I spend time and lower troops to exchange for higher troops. The higher troops we need to do higher PP levels more easily later.  Also I am building up 'pieces' from lower level items (class I and 2 atm). Then when I do higher PP levels, if I get a good item, I can upgrade it easily and quickly to max level 5. I mean, I will not have to worry about pieces for good class 3 or 4 items later because I save up now doing easier PP.     


Yes, you are right  -lower level troops can have more strength value for the same price. But for the higher level PP, the larger the chance will be that we need higher level troops to win it more easily. If we use lower level troops for high level PP, the loss can sometimes be much larger -it depends on the scout report.     But actually it is all the same  -troops we lose help pay back the loan. It just depends what you want to do -win PP more quickly for tournament points with fewer losses?  trade lower level troops for higher troops and reduce grain consumpton? try to do both of them, if possible?


Good luck!  

UTC +9:00
RIX
26 April, 2017, 1:50 PM UTC

Excellent write up.  There are some players on the CPU server that have discovered certain algorithms to maximize payouts but alas its a secret they will not share so we may never know if it's even real but I've seen players that have gotten 4 massive payouts in just 2 hours time of playing positions equaling nearly 100k troops in total as rewards.



A T H E N A
UTC -5:00
Xena
Moderator
27 April, 2017, 9:30 AM UTC
RIX said:

Excellent write up.  There are some players on the CPU server that have discovered certain algorithms to maximize payouts but alas its a secret they will not share so we may never know if it's even real but I've seen players that have gotten 4 massive payouts in just 2 hours time of playing positions equaling nearly 100k troops in total as rewards.



Yeah I have seen same payouts but only from coiners. Personally haven't seen a regular player who is not a coiner get that kind of rewards.
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
RIX
5 May, 2017, 11:33 PM UTC
Xena said:

RIX said:

Excellent write up.  There are some players on the CPU server that have discovered certain algorithms to maximize payouts but alas its a secret they will not share so we may never know if it's even real but I've seen players that have gotten 4 massive payouts in just 2 hours time of playing positions equaling nearly 100k troops in total as rewards.



Yeah I have seen same payouts but only from coiners. Personally haven't seen a regular player who is not a coiner get that kind of rewards.
Yes exactly
A T H E N A
UTC -5:00
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