Effects of Phylarch Bonuses on Time

21 Reply
ANKAN
12 November, 2016, 11:03 PM UTC
Edit : Go to the 10th post of this topic for best answer    LINK

This topic is about the activation of phylarch bonuses and its actual effects.This specifically addresses the agreement, phylarch skill and construction boosts etc. which can be accessed from amphitheater > select bonus option.The fact that phylarch bonus can be activated for 3 hrs(no alteration) and thus total required time for any task first decreases after bonus activation and then increases again after this 3 hr activation period creates doubt whether it's really effective.

The answer is yes it is .But how much does these effect required time.The actual reduction of time can be simply stated as:

bonus percentage X 3 hrs(180 minutes)

-------------------------------------------

     100 - bonus percentage

Example : If you need 9 hrs to sign or update an agreement and activate a 10% bonus immediately after signing the effective reduction of time after 3 hrs of phylarch activation equals

                  10 X 180

                   -----------      =  20 minutes

                   100 - 10

So remaining time shown after 3 hrs is :  9 hrs - 3 hrs - 20 min = 5 hrs 40 min .

Difference from permanent reduction : if bonuses were applied permanently in the above case  (that is 9 hrs signing and 10% bonus) the remaining time after 3 hrs would have been

9 hrs - 3 hrs - 54 minutes = 5 hrs 6 minutes .


Note : You can activate phylarch several times for  3 hrs session so higher number of phylarch bonus activation will result in much lesser time.

Win The War Within
UTC +7:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
14 November, 2016, 12:26 PM UTC
Interesting, but why 9 hrs - 3 hrs? It's the activation time, but not the reduction time. 
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
lefeubleu
14 November, 2016, 6:31 PM UTC

He means that those 3 hours have been spent already, since it is after the end of the 3h bonus that he is talking about. So the 20minutes have been gained, but the 3 hours have just passed, during the time the bonus was active.

Hope it makes sense...

Thanks a lot Ankan by the way, that was my big problem yesterday, with the end of the development race, I had to be quite precise about how much to boost
UTC -4:00
ANKAN
14 November, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Interesting, but why 9 hrs - 3 hrs? It's the activation time, but not the reduction time. 

9 hour agreement sign time and  10% agreement speed bonus in phylarch are arbitrary values used for example and can be replaced with proper values.

But to see the effect of phylarch bonus activation question is "what will be the remaining time after 3 hours of phylarch activation?" ..

answer is :  Original time - Phylarch activation time(3 hours session) - Time gained from that session .

Win The War Within
UTC +7:00
who
14 November, 2016, 11:29 PM UTC

I don't understand how you calculate it that way and why, but it seems wrong to me.

if I use your type in denarii for example with 20% bonus, i should have:

10*180/ (100-20) =22.5 minutes but i know for a fact that i gain 10 minutes per hour, so 30+ minutes per activation. 


I think you got it wrong.


Here is how i calculate time in order to precise:

Basic idea

Basic idea is that time to sign agreement is the result of a fixed value / speed=> time=value/speed

Bonuses increase speed, thus time is decreased.

So, in your example, I would calculate it like this:

60 minutes + 10% * 60 minutes=66 minutes/ hour. This is your speed. So after 3 hours you gain 18 minutes not 20. And if you activate it 3 times, as it was a permanent boost you would get 18*3=54 minutes and your agreement would need  8 hours and 11 minutes. (time=9 hours * 60/66)

It is less than 54 because agreement ends before 9 hours.

This way, all bonuses increase the speed in fixed value :10%=6 minutes 20%=12 minutes per hour etc. and the actual impact is fixed per activation, no matter how much time you need for ending agreement.


The rest of the post explains how Amphitheater bonuses affect estimated time in different occasions.



Skills/denarii

Here things are fairly straightforward

example : denarii 1 hour with 20% boost=>speed=60*1.2=72

time=60/ 72= 50 minutes

example 2: skill 1 day with 50% boost=>speed=60*1.5=90

time = 254*60/90 so the time in activation will be 16 hours

in one activation we will sign 4.5 hours instead of 3. The distance we covered is 24-4.5=19.5

Here is the part that most guys get confused about.

1 sec before bonus ends time will be calculated with speed of 90 and will say 19.5*60/90=13 hours but when bonus ends time will be 19.5*60/60=>19.5 hours. We expected to gain 1 hour and 30 minutes and we did :)


This is why most guys think that game is cheating them.


Agreements/buildings/troops


Although the system works the same, we find here a big difference, the time we see when we try to sign an agreement is already being calculated with higher speed than 60 minutes / hour

ephorate adds up to 50% and academy up to 24%.

example: time we see is 16 hours, bonus from ephorate 40%, academy 10% and amphitheater 10%

In this example we know time and bonus but we don't know the initial value. So 10% amphitheater bonus wont change time to 16*60/66=14 hours and 33 minutes.

If we want to calculate that time we need to find the value=time*speed=16* 90/60=24 hours.

Our speed will be: 40% ephorate, 10% academy, 10% amphitheater=>60% boost for activation time => speed=60*1.6=96 minutes/ hour

so the time we see when we activate bonus  is: 24*60/96=15 hours. 


We saw that bonus is a fixed value and we expect to gain 18 minutes per activation.

Time 1 sec before bonus ends 15-3= 12 hours  => value= 19 hours and 12 minutes 

Without amphitheater boost we would have 16-3= 13 hours=> value=19 hours and 30 minutes

We gained exactly 18 minutes for initial time.

After boost ends, time = value/speed (without amphitheater bonus) = 19 hours  and 12 minutes*60/ 90=12 hours and 48 minutes. 


As we see we gained 18 minutes of initial time but because of already activated boosts the actual gain is 12 minutes.


Same way we estimate bonuses for troops building times and buildings construction times



Hope I helped.

UTC -6:00
Prometheus
15 November, 2016, 1:52 AM UTC
Very nice explanation post :) thank you!
UTC +4:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
15 November, 2016, 11:11 AM UTC
ANKAN said:

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Interesting, but why 9 hrs - 3 hrs? It's the activation time, but not the reduction time. 

9 hour agreement sign time and  10% agreement speed bonus in phylarch are arbitrary values used for example and can be replaced with proper values.

But to see the effect of phylarch bonus activation question is "what will be the remaining time after 3 hours of phylarch activation?" ..

answer is :  Original time - Phylarch activation time(3 hours session) - Time gained from that session .

Got it now :) Moved to game tutorials.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
ANKAN
15 November, 2016, 7:06 PM UTC

who said:


Basic idea

Basic idea is that time to sign agreement is the result of a fixed value / speed=> time=value/speed

Bonuses increase speed, thus time is decreased.

If the speed is increased instead of the reduction in total time then the time gain will be different . Thank you for posting your view. Then there will be a little change in the term calculating time gain. In this case time is not reduced directly instead speed of signing is increased. 

So the time gain after 3 hours of phylarch activation will be :

phylarch speed bonus percentage X 180 minutes

---------------------------------------------------------------

100


so remaining time(after a 3 hr phylarch activation) : Original time - 3 hours (Phylarch Session) - time gain(in that session /the term above).

Tell me if this match your results.

 
Win The War Within
UTC +7:00
who
15 November, 2016, 8:23 PM UTC

ANKAN said:


Tell me if this match your results.

It does only in cases that no other bonus affects speed, like skills and denarii. 

Read my post about Agreements/buildings/troops and you will see that your type doesn't apply there. The only way to estimate the actual gain of time is by estimating time with and without amphitheater bonus as I do in that post.

I wish it was more simple but it isn't.

Plarium has made it that way so we think that we gain a lot but we actually don't. It is an illusion.

UTC -6:00
ANKAN
19 November, 2016, 7:09 AM UTC

    10th post


 This post is simplification of the discussion above to accurately measure Time Gain after each 3 hour session of phylarch speed bonus activation.The fact that the bonus does not decrease the total time directly instead increases the speed of task completion influence Time Gain. There will be of course other "regular bonuses" already active and effective in different building and training process and its value depends upon the build level of those different structure of individual city. The "regular bonuses" are listed below in groups relative to their effective field. If any of these regular bonus is not active then its value is zero so other bonuses are summed up and used in the term below.

time gain at the end of each session(3 hrs) phylarch speed bonus activation

180 X phylarch speed bonus percentage

--------->   --------------------------------------------------   minutes

100 + SUM of other regular bonuses

Remaining time after each phylarch bonus activation :

Original time shown in timer before phylarch bonus activation - 3 hours (phylarch session) - Time Gain

Note : phylarch bonus can be activated several times for 3 hours session.So higher number of phylarch bonus activation will result in much lesser time.


Other regular bonuses


  • In case of Construction Speed Bonus >

          building speed in AGORA


  • In case of Agreement Signing Speed Bonus >

          signing speed in EPHORATE and signing speed in ACADEMY


  • In case of Light Infantry Training Speed Bonus >

          training speed of different light infantry troops in ACADEMY


  • In case of Heavy Infantry Training Speed Bonus >

          training speed of different heavy infantry troops in ACADEMY


  • In case of Phalanx Training Speed Bonus >

          training speed of different phalanx troops in ACADEMY


  • In case of Cavalry Training Speed Bonus >

          training speed of different cavalry troops in ACADEMY


  • In case of Skill Discovery Speed Bonus >

          there is no other regular speed bonus for this so it has zero value

Example : 

Suppose any individual city has 40% signing speed increase in Ephorate 10% in Academy and 10% in phylarch/Amphitheater and  to sign agreement required time shown in the timer just before phylarch bonus activation is 16 hours. Then time gain is

( 180 X 10 ) / (100 + 40 + 10 ) = (1800 / 150) = 12 minutes.

So remaining time after 3 hours of Phylarch activation is 

16 hours - 3 hours - 12 minutes = 12 hours 48 minutes


Win The War Within
UTC +7:00
spathis
28 November, 2016, 8:54 PM UTC
I haven't used it yet. My question is once I've used it for 3 hours, how long does it take to reactivate it again?
Rats live on no evil staR.
UTC +0:00
Greed oft o'er reaches itself
28 November, 2016, 9:31 PM UTC

spathis said:


I haven't used it yet. My question is once I've used it for 3 hours, how long does it take to reactivate it again?

You can reactivate again for another 3 hrs as soon as it expires, but obviously you have to be online then to do so.  Not a great feature for overnight hours.

UTC +0:00
Xena
Moderator
28 November, 2016, 11:02 PM UTC
You can reactivate it every 3 hours. It requires to be online in order to activate it again but I find it quite useful. It's helpful in a word yet I believe it depends on what kind of game style you prefer. I suggest you start using it by the way!
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
faytlyn
28 December, 2016, 6:32 AM UTC
My problem with the time redux only happened now. I used to spam that button every time I can to help buildings and agreements go faster, which it did. Now after the Christmas event or whatever, when I click the activate button, it reduces the time, but as soon as the activate refreshes 3h later, the build time/sign time goes back to its original time w/o the redux. So it basically became useless now to use more than once. If this stays this way, I probably should've devoted more points in the phylarch bonus and other skills instead of devoting all of my points in construction, agreement and denarii exchange speed. -.- fml.
UTC +8:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
28 December, 2016, 11:26 AM UTC
faytlyn said:

My problem with the time redux only happened now. I used to spam that button every time I can to help buildings and agreements go faster, which it did. Now after the Christmas event or whatever, when I click the activate button, it reduces the time, but as soon as the activate refreshes 3h later, the build time/sign time goes back to its original time w/o the redux. So it basically became useless now to use more than once. If this stays this way, I probably should've devoted more points in the phylarch bonus and other skills instead of devoting all of my points in construction, agreement and denarii exchange speed. -.- fml.
That's how this feature works. It will increase the building speed, but only for the 3 hours, while your Phylarch is active.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
ekey8
11 January, 2017, 3:52 AM UTC
Hi there, where can I can those "Marks of Athena"?  Which tournament?  Thanks.
UTC +7:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
11 January, 2017, 10:08 AM UTC
ekey8 said:

Hi there, where can I can those "Marks of Athena"?  Which tournament?  Thanks.
There are special Phylarch Tournaments where you can get those. Unfortunately, I can't give you the exact name of a Tournament.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
morteeee
Moderator
25 February, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

there is one on right now Archon 


(ignore my personal progress on it, I haven't been online much today!) 



History is written by the victors
UTC +1:00
lefeubleu
27 July, 2017, 8:02 PM UTC

Hello all,

Ankan was right on his 10th post, I'm just here to give the basic values of time gained for each activation, values that will apply to most people (agora and ephorate lvl20, signing speed 40/40 scrolls, agreement signing speed and construction building speed +25%, skill discovery speed +50%) :

construction gain time : 37 minutes

agreement gain time : 27 minutes

skill discovery gain time : 90 minutes

Useful for people who are asleep when development races end and didn't know exactly how much they had to speed up their upgrades... 
UTC -4:00
Xena
Moderator
28 July, 2017, 10:18 AM UTC

lefeubleu FQtrahI said:


Hello all,

Ankan was right on his 10th post, I'm just here to give the basic values of time gained for each activation, values that will apply to most people (agora and ephorate lvl20, signing speed 40/40 scrolls, agreement signing speed and construction building speed +25%, skill discovery speed +50%) :

construction gain time : 37 minutes

agreement gain time : 27 minutes

skill discovery gain time : 90 minutes

Useful for people who are asleep when development races end and didn't know exactly how much they had to speed up their upgrades... 

Hello lefeubleu! 

Useful conclusions I might add. Is this time reduced everytime you activate the phylarch (given the fact that everyone has agreement signing speed and construction building speed +25% on the phylarch slots)?

Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
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