All Categories

Persian Positions are NOT working

Persian Positions are NOT working

Search
Moderators for Sparta: War of Empires
Moderators wanted!
Comments
MariusAdmin
Nov 23, 2017, 09:1511/23/17
09/04/17
2719

Tonaya said:


Dimitri,if this what i just said is not truth,bring one game developer on forum,for 5 minutes,to prove to us did imperial troops have any value for pp bank,or not.

if plarium dont bring developer on forum,it is crystal clear why they dont want to do that :)


Tonaya, I have no doubt that you are well aware, after being on the forum for so long, that Community Managers handle forums while developers work on the game and they are never brought in to communicate directly. So I'm not sure what's the purpose of this demand apart from making a bit of a stir.


In regards to your actual question, all of the above: Imperial, Roman and Champion units do have a value when it comes to calculating losses in Persian Positions. Though I personally do believe it is best to use regular units since all three of those above are quite valuable and their losses are not as easily recuperated. 
Nov 24, 2017, 23:2011/24/17
Nov 27, 2017, 08:51(edited)
09/12/16
9

i am agree in the persian position are not working, i did many positions in the last month and i don't recover all my troops, i did more of 40 positions, i started with a level 105 and i let in the 140, i did positions of attack and defence and i lost many troops, i just recive defence but all my off is dead, i just have 2m off and i need minimum 6m to can do the 140, it's a derision that plarium give us 500 phalanx when we lose 1000, or that we recive phalanx when we lose cavalry, in many positions i recived maybe 1m as reward and my lost was of 2m or 3m, the persian positions is the only way in that the players that not use money as me, can do grow their armys i don't want that plarium give us 10m or 20m in every persian position but minimum i want that they give us the enough troops to still doing positions and not only of one tipe, for example right now i have defence to do persians positions of defence but that mean lose my def to have offensive units and i don't want that, i am in a good coalition and the defence is very important, so what you want that we do? if you want proof check this out----->https://plarium.com/forum/en/sparta-war-of-empires/tema-en-espanol/84949_mal-funcionamiento-de-las-posiciones-persas/<>

in there you can see all my screen shots about my rewards and my loss

Nov 25, 2017, 04:3911/25/17
Nov 25, 2017, 04:47(edited)
01/10/16
221

ivan13_van said:


i am agree in the persian position are not working, i did many positions in the last month and i don't recover all my troops, i did more of 40 positions, i started with a level 105 and i let in the 140, i did positions of attack and defence and i lost many troops, i just recive defence but all my off is dead, i just have 2m off and i need minimum 6m to can do the 140, it's a fucking derision that plarium give us 500 phalanx when we lose 1000, or that we recive phalanx when we lose cavalry, in many positions i recived maybe 1m as reward and my lost was of 2m or 3m, the persian positions is the only way in that the players that not use money as me, can do grow their armys i don't want that plarium give us 10m or 20m in every persian position but minimum i want that they give us the enough troops to still doing positions and not only of one tipe, for example right now i have defence to do persians positions of defence but that mean lose my def to have offensive units and i don't want that, i am in a good coalition and the defence is very important, so what you want that we do? if you want proof check this out----->https://plarium.com/forum/en/sparta-war-of-empires/tema-en-espanol/84949_mal-funcionamiento-de-las-posiciones-persas/<>

in there you can see all my screen shots about my rewards and my loss



Ivan,


First, let me be clear-I do not even come close to playing Persians at the levels you have played. I started playing Persians when I joined the game over 2 years ago and lost half of my army. There were and are so many spreadsheets and "calculators" and the game was not fun at that point. When you lose troops like I did, you tend to stay away from PP's.

 If I may, I would like to comment on some of the  screen shots-

Level 121-You recieved 3090 Promachos and 617 Thureos

Level 126-You received 2246 Promachos 

Level 127-5629 Sariss and 1125 Thorakites


I always see people using Phalanx and Cavalry (as you did)  on positions. I thought the whole point of Xerxes was to exchange low value troops for high value troops.


As I stated. I could never ever think of using Cavalry and Phalanx troops the way you did-I view them as "high end" troops.

My questions are as follows:

 What would have happened if you used lights and heavies "ONLY" over a period of time? Sure, it would have taken much longer, but I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) you would have recieved a bigger payout?

 Also, was your city resources maxed out at the time of your attacks? If you received resources, (and you did) then the payout you got was in troops "and" resources (again, someone correct me if I am wrong)


In closing, I counted over 16,000 in  Promachos you gained!

16,000 Promachos?..I can't even begin to fathom how many years it would take me to build that many.


As i stated, I do not play Xerxes because I see people using their entire bulk of the army they have-only to end up with losses.


Thanks for reading, as I was curious. I look at your winnings as great, yet you do not.  My only disagreement is that you used the very troops (Cavalry & Phalanx) you were looking to win, where I would not.

Respectfully,

Mick


MariusAdmin
Nov 27, 2017, 08:5911/27/17
09/04/17
2719

Ivan13_van, firstly, I removed the profanity from your comment. Please follow the forum rules and avoid using inappropriate language. As for your comment in itself, you are not guaranteed to recuperate your losses completely on a regular basis. However form the screenshots you linked, I can see that on many occasions you have received your troops back and more, so I am not certain what you are referring to as being broken.


There are many players who have mastered Persian Positions, perhaps asking around in your Coalition or trying to contact the players who regularly reach the top rankings would be helpful. Or, as Mick said, you can use this feature as an easy way to receive more powerful Troops in exchange for sacrificing your cheaper ones in battle.
Nov 27, 2017, 11:0111/27/17
04/13/16
542
Ivan don't use imperials mate on doing persians ,also from what i   get from  some of print screens you posted ,those are  done  when you   level up youre Oracle    so not  expect on  big payout   when clearing  those positions 
Nov 27, 2017, 17:4811/27/17
01/17/16
78
Doctor Sameer said:

Ivan don't use imperials mate on doing persians ,also from what i   get from  some of print screens you posted ,those are  done  when you   level up youre Oracle    so not  expect on  big payout   when clearing  those positions 
treu level up dont payout .. if you feel payout is comming hit your second highest 
Nov 29, 2017, 16:3911/29/17
08/21/14
1028

Dimitri Molchanov said:


Tonaya said:


Dimitri,if this what i just said is not truth,bring one game developer on forum,for 5 minutes,to prove to us did imperial troops have any value for pp bank,or not.

if plarium dont bring developer on forum,it is crystal clear why they dont want to do that :)


Tonaya, I have no doubt that you are well aware, after being on the forum for so long, that Community Managers handle forums while developers work on the game and they are never brought in to communicate directly. So I'm not sure what's the purpose of this demand apart from making a bit of a stir.


In regards to your actual question, all of the above: Imperial, Roman and Champion units do have a value when it comes to calculating losses in Persian Positions. Though I personally do believe it is best to use regular units since all three of those above are quite valuable and their losses are not as easily recuperated. 

thank you for your answer,Dimitri,i will make my question even more simpler:

1.does IMPERIAL troops have SAME value on PP as REGULAR troops(question is for PP value bank) ?

to explain more,if someone dont understand what i'm asking here: pp system is based on how much troops you loose/win(in and out)=how much resources you needed to build them.

example:

1 sword=timber 90,bronze 150,grain 60,value for pp bank of single sword is 90+150+60=300

1 agema=timber 5000,bronze 12277,grain 7000,value for pp bank of single agema is 5000+12277+7000=24277

there are spreadsheets made about pp system,i have 16+ versions of those,and i tested them,and they do work.

what i'm asking is this: IMPERIAL troops are not made by resources,you cant build them,you can buy them for drachma or to win on some tournament as reward,because they are not made of resources i am sure they dont have same value as regular troops for pp bank,and i assume their value is same as how much resources you spended to build them,and its a ZERO,thats why i think imperial troops value for pp bank is ZERO.

also,i assume that plarium headquarters are not 2 or more buildings,i think its one building,and i assume that game developers are 10 meters from you,in real life,they are in next office,and if they are bussy programming something,could you be so kind and just ask them 1 question:

Dimitri:"hi programmers,do imperial troops have same value for pp bank as regular troops,or not"?

and then to tell us all here what did they answer,nothing more.

this is very important for me,for us,3+years loyal sparta game,players,and for all players as well,because players,not knowing value of imperial troops,keep sending them on pp positions,and loosing ALL troops on pp going on higher pp lvl's,and when they loose all troops,and when they think only for few seconds how much time they need to rebuild all those troops,or how much money they need to revive them,they just quit to play this game,and they became USER DELETED,result is that plarium loose costumers,players,you can look on map how much USER DELETED are there,they are high lvl players,their cities are well developed,and its a shame to see and think how much time/money they invested in this game,plarium should respect our time and money invested in this game.

you can see that i care for players and for plarium at the same time,and still dont understand why i was banned 4 times asking game related questions.


"give man a fish and you'll feed him for one day,teach man how to fish and you'll feed him for entire life"


Tonaya 
MariusAdmin
Nov 30, 2017, 09:2611/30/17
09/04/17
2719

Tonaya, I can with absolute certainty confirm that Imperial troops count towards your Persian Positions and that their value is far from zero. This is a matter that has been covered in one of our talks with developers, so I do already have confirmation from them. I am afraid I cannot reveal exact values, but I know that at least one player managed to figure it out in the past.


Now, whether I would suggest you send Imperial, Roman or Champion units to Persian Positions? As I said earlier, not really. It is possible, sometimes it might be beneficial perhaps, but it is very risky. You cannot rebuild your losses among those troops as quickly as you would with your regulars. In the end, it is all up to the player him- or herself, and I know some managed to work out a good strategy that involves the above unit types, while others prefer a different approach.
Dec 2, 2017, 18:0412/02/17
10/09/14
216

Dimitri Molchanov said:


Tonaya, I can with absolute certainty confirm that Imperial troops count towards your Persian Positions and that their value is far from zero. This is a matter that has been covered in one of our talks with developers, so I do already have confirmation from them. I am afraid I cannot reveal exact values, but I know that at least one player managed to figure it out in the past.


Now, whether I would suggest you send Imperial, Roman or Champion units to Persian Positions? As I said earlier, not really. It is possible, sometimes it might be beneficial perhaps, but it is very risky. You cannot rebuild your losses among those troops as quickly as you would with your regulars. In the end, it is all up to the player him- or herself, and I know some managed to work out a good strategy that involves the above unit types, while others prefer a different approach.

I m happy because after 2 years complaining in the forum if Imperial troops value as resources, a brave Community Manager find the valency to knock next door Developments room asking for that... Please to complete the job, ask them how much value of resources cost every Imperial unit... The reason is simple: players need to count with how many resources refill the bank when  kill Imperial Units.... 

Thanks in advance.. I m looking forward for the right answer... 
Dec 3, 2017, 03:3412/03/17
Dec 3, 2017, 06:09(edited)
12/15/15
3326

From the tournament start,  PP problems for me.. 


1- Oracle can not refresh correctly.  I get 31 offense positions (not usual 35) only + usual 35 defense positions. Posted report on bug forum. Tried to submit a  ticket but returned to forum.

2- Last payout only 30.6% of bank investment.  Lost 69.4%.  Cleared 5 positions near last payout level position, but no payout. Did very low positions. Got some very low payouts. Near last payout position level again. Nothing.  Mid level positions, some low rewards.  Nothing near last payment level position yet.  Dont know why that happened.

Before, sometimes the payout was early. Sometimes late. Sometimes from mixed positions.   But resource amount total was similar or different but ok.  I checked my PP spreadsheet data.  Results today are  worst % loss this year.   


Maybe tomorrow I  can get something. Maybe my oracle will show correct position total (35+35).  But now not happy.

Dec 3, 2017, 09:2312/03/17
04/13/16
542
kjm said:

From the tournament start,  PP problems for me.. 


1- Oracle can not refresh correctly.  I get 31 offense positions (not usual 35) only + usual 35 defense positions. Posted report on bug forum. Tried to submit a  ticket but returned to forum.

2- Last payout only 30.6% of bank investment.  Lost 69.4%.  Cleared 5 positions near last payout level position, but no payout. Did very low positions. Got some very low payouts. Near last payout position level again. Nothing.  Mid level positions, some low rewards.  Nothing near last payment level position yet.  Dont know why that happened.

Before, sometimes the payout was early. Sometimes late. Sometimes from mixed positions.   But resource amount total was similar or different but ok.  I checked my PP spreadsheet data.  Results today are  worst % loss this year.   


Maybe tomorrow I  can get something. Maybe my oracle will show correct position total (35+35).  But now not happy.

Mate  do first position tomorrow the highest position available   , that isn't leveling up youre Oracle 
Dec 4, 2017, 04:1912/04/17
Dec 4, 2017, 06:01(edited)
08/13/16
118

Tonaya said:


Dimitri Molchanov said:


Tonaya said:


Dimitri,if this what i just said is not truth,bring one game developer on forum,for 5 minutes,to prove to us did imperial troops have any value for pp bank,or not.

if plarium dont bring developer on forum,it is crystal clear why they dont want to do that :)


Tonaya, I have no doubt that you are well aware, after being on the forum for so long, that Community Managers handle forums while developers work on the game and they are never brought in to communicate directly. So I'm not sure what's the purpose of this demand apart from making a bit of a stir.


In regards to your actual question, all of the above: Imperial, Roman and Champion units do have a value when it comes to calculating losses in Persian Positions. Though I personally do believe it is best to use regular units since all three of those above are quite valuable and their losses are not as easily recuperated. 

thank you for your answer,Dimitri,i will make my question even more simpler:

1.does IMPERIAL troops have SAME value on PP as REGULAR troops(question is for PP value bank) ?

to explain more,if someone dont understand what i'm asking here: pp system is based on how much troops you loose/win(in and out)=how much resources you needed to build them.

example:

1 sword=timber 90,bronze 150,grain 60,value for pp bank of single sword is 90+150+60=300

1 agema=timber 5000,bronze 12277,grain 7000,value for pp bank of single agema is 5000+12277+7000=24277

there are spreadsheets made about pp system,i have 16+ versions of those,and i tested them,and they do work.

what i'm asking is this: IMPERIAL troops are not made by resources,you cant build them,you can buy them for drachma or to win on some tournament as reward,because they are not made of resources i am sure they dont have same value as regular troops for pp bank,and i assume their value is same as how much resources you spended to build them,and its a ZERO,thats why i think imperial troops value for pp bank is ZERO.

also,i assume that plarium headquarters are not 2 or more buildings,i think its one building,and i assume that game developers are 10 meters from you,in real life,they are in next office,and if they are bussy programming something,could you be so kind and just ask them 1 question:

Dimitri:"hi programmers,do imperial troops have same value for pp bank as regular troops,or not"?

and then to tell us all here what did they answer,nothing more.

this is very important for me,for us,3+years loyal sparta game,players,and for all players as well,because players,not knowing value of imperial troops,keep sending them on pp positions,and loosing ALL troops on pp going on higher pp lvl's,and when they loose all troops,and when they think only for few seconds how much time they need to rebuild all those troops,or how much money they need to revive them,they just quit to play this game,and they became USER DELETED,result is that plarium loose costumers,players,you can look on map how much USER DELETED are there,they are high lvl players,their cities are well developed,and its a shame to see and think how much time/money they invested in this game,plarium should respect our time and money invested in this game.

you can see that i care for players and for plarium at the same time,and still dont understand why i was banned 4 times asking game related questions.


"give man a fish and you'll feed him for one day,teach man how to fish and you'll feed him for entire life"


Tonaya 

You can pretty much answer this question on imperial units and persians yourself, fairly quickly, and at little cost. Below I will give you a method to do this. Even if Plarium responds and gives the answer, then you should test their answer anyway (using the method below) before throwing imperials at the persians. I don't think Plarium will give you the answer, because not everyone reads forums and many players will not get a payout when using imperials (because of some other thing they are doing wrong) and Plarium will just get hammered more and more on positions. So, IMO, this is your best bet if you want the answer:

The explanation/method below assumes you already have a good understanding of the persian bank system.

Take two low level, offense positions of the same level, that are also similar in Xerxes' phalanx defense. (If you can't find a pair of positions like this, perhaps wait for them, or pick a pair that is close to these criteria.) I suggest somewhere in the low 30's.

Clear the 1st with only normal promacho. 

Clear the 2nd with only imperial promacho. 

Please make sure you do this after your bank has been reset, to avoid triggering a payout on lower level.

For each of the two positions, separately, calculate: (resource value of units gained + raw RSS gained) divided by (number of Promacho lost multiplied by standard RSS cost of Promacho). (Note the brackets in the formula.)

If the ratio is non-zero for the imperials test, then imperials probably count some resource value towards the persian bank. If the ratio isn't much different on each of the two positions, then this suggests that imperial Promacho and normal Promacho are probably similar in RSS value counted towards the persian bank. If the ratios are non-zero, but different, then you could add a multiplier to the denominator of the imperials test, and solve for the value of this multiplier that equates the imperial and non-imperial ratios. Note that the ratio mentioned has some randomness built into it, so you can't just test one sample of two positions and draw a solid conclusion. But, this test will at least give you an indication of relative resource value. Maybe it is cheaper to do the above with cretan archers. However, if I was going to use a particular imperial unit type in persians (which I personally won't do), I would first test the above for that unit at least 5 times, depending on how stable the results are.

If the ratio on the imperial test is zero, or much lower than the ratio on normal promachos, then you already have your answer, and you know for sure you should not be using imperials on positions.

However, if the ratios look promising, then you still want to be careful. You can never be sure of your conclusions drawn from the ratio testing, until you get your bank cashed out. For example, maybe imperials have lower resource value, but all their resource value is returned on the same position they died at, making it look like they contribute something to the bank, when they don't. (This is unlikely because it wouldn't make much sense, but point is, until you get a full cash out of your bank, and evaluate, you can't be 100% sure.)

SO IN SUMMARY: If I wanted to use imperials in persians, then I would do the following first:

1: Repeat the above test several times (at least 5) until you got some stability in your ratio testing.

2: If the results of ratio testing look promising to you, then proceed. 

3: Hit your last two positions before you expect a full payout of the bank with only imperial troops.

4: If your payout arrives as expected per the ratio tests you did, then you are close to figuring out imperials.

5: This approach should minimise the risk with using imperials while giving you the best information.

6: Suppose Plarium does give an answer to Imperial units' resource value, then I would test their answer anyway using the above method.

I also refer to one of my previous posts on positions, where I advised players to figure things out at lower levels, and to test their understanding. If somebody you knew threw many imperials at the persians without having tested their understanding, then they have only themselves to blame. To ease your concerns around players dropping out because of using imperials at positions: Players who did what you said with imperials would probably have "lost" everything at positions at some point anyway (regardless of using imperials or not). They probably used imperials as a last resort and in a desperate attempt to get the bank to cash out after having "lost" everything else.

Dec 4, 2017, 06:4112/04/17
Dec 4, 2017, 06:57(edited)
08/13/16
118

Spent 5 minutes and did some initial testing. This testing is incomplete (only 2 samples used). I stopped half-way through point number 1 per my previous post. I am not planning to complete any testing on this.


Sample 1:

Normal Promacho ratio: 23.53%

Imperial Promacho ratio: 21.07%


Sample 2:

Normal Promacho ratio: 16.34%

Imperial Promacho ratio: 22.49%


The 16.34% is probably understated due to rounding, since only 1 Agema got paid out. I know for a fact that the 16.34% is on the low side and not typical. Also, I don't think 5 samples is going to be enough for anyone who wants to do this testing - probably need to (at least) double that to 10.

The data is consistent with what you would expect to see if Imperials counted towards the resource bank of the persians. However, as clearly explained in the previous post, this is too little information to go on, and the final part of the test has to be whether the persian bank resets as expected. Therefore, the above results do not prove anything.


If I had to speculate, I would say this:

1: It is highly unlikely that Imperials do not count towards the persian bank. 

2: In the best case scenario, you are probably looking at Imperials counting a small percentage more resources than their regular versions towards the persian bank.

3: The people who quit the game because of losing all their imperials (per Tonaya's post) over-extended themselves, or did something wrong with the persians, or just got unlucky.


My own opinion, based on my own preferences:

I would not continue this testing myself, because even if imperial counted double the resource value of regular troops (which I guess is still possible, although unlikely), I'd still prefer to not use the imperials at Xerxes. In that scenario, and if you had unlimited access to Oric, then yes, different story.
MariusAdmin
Dec 4, 2017, 09:4912/04/17
09/04/17
2719

I am glad that I was able to give some insight into the matter and hope it was helpful. Though, unfortunately, I will not be able to provide you with the "value" of Imperial Troops, or any Troops for that matter, that contributes to your reward in Persian Positions. But Tsunwu85rsa has created a very interesting test routine that could help you get a more clear idea of this value if you wish to pursue the testing further.


To reiterate, my personal opinion remains the same - it is best to use Regular Troops in Persian Positions and keep Imperial Troops for other tasks simply because one unfortunate loss can cost you a lot of valuable Units.

Dec 8, 2017, 00:0012/08/17
6
Canis Lupus said:

Rix...I don't normally give away secrets for free, but you seem like a nice guy so I'm going to give you the secret to winning big against Persians. It's a 5 step method so get a pen and paper and write this down....it will change your Sparta experience and maybe even change the dynamics of Sparta as a whole.

Step 1: Calculate your total strength of both your offense and defense

Step 2: Insert your entire army, both offense and defense, into the persian bank. Yes!! Until nothing is left.

Step 3: Go to the nearest grocery store and buy rice, peanut butter, one of those big jugs of distilled water (this will be your meals for the next month...add some bananas if you have kids), and a bottle of vodka.

Step 4: Drink the bottle of vodka (such an important step) until your actually dumb enough to spend real money on this game

Step 5: Go to the revive tab and revive the 50 million that you lost....clear a position 140 or higher and BOOM!!!! 10 million payout! After a couple months you'll be a beast the likes the hellas have never seen!


There ya go bud! Clear instructions on how to dominate this game. Hope it helps. Look me up in game if you have any questions!


Dec 8, 2017, 00:0712/08/17
6

I belived you  I was up to writing the third step down and there is not a persion bank i was wondering where it was on the game  dam Iam stupid  stoped writing and started reading  and it hit me  there is really not a payout  there never will be so Sparta tricked me well us iam so dam stupid but i get it thank you 


Dec 8, 2017, 00:1012/08/17
6
Dimitri Molchanov said:

I am glad that I was able to give some insight into the matter and hope it was helpful. Though, unfortunately, I will not be able to provide you with the "value" of Imperial Troops, or any Troops for that matter, that contributes to your reward in Persian Positions. But Tsunwu85rsa has created a very interesting test routine that could help you get a more clear idea of this value if you wish to pursue the testing further.


To reiterate, my personal opinion remains the same - it is best to use Regular Troops in Persian Positions and keep Imperial Troops for other tasks simply because one unfortunate loss can cost you a lot of valuable Units.


Dec 8, 2017, 00:1312/08/17
6
Dimitri you've upset me  so I believe you are Hellas  and don't they have a troop named after you sir  please answer thank you.
MariusAdmin
Dec 8, 2017, 08:5012/08/17
09/04/17
2719
infirmary311 said:

Dimitri you've upset me  so I believe you are Hellas  and don't they have a troop named after you sir  please answer thank you.
I am not quite sure what you mean there, Infirmary311. Could you re-phrase perhaps?
Dec 13, 2017, 14:4212/13/17
Dec 13, 2017, 15:06(edited)
10/03/16
2

Yes i think Serse are not calculate troup lost are not possible; when start tournemant of end of year i've over 70 millions troup; i've send last 6800 horseman win on intermediate position  bring to a notch; day after (for calculate lost troup) i've send troup for close intermediate position start da high to low and don't pay nothing i've send other 5000 phalanx for close other positions and pay only 5100 promachos.

I think Serse have bug. And after Serse i've spent 400000 drachmas for revive horseman and phalanx. 

Please control Plarium because are not possible.