This topic is closed

Censorship

3 Replies
woad
13 June, 2017, 6:37 AM UTC

Irate Penguin: I tried to message you privately regarding this matter, but the messaging system was confusing and seemed not to work. A few weeks ago you closed our thread and threatened to ban us from the forum if we continued with our thread. You gave your reasons for closing the thread, which may or may not have been valid reasons for doing so.

But, for a couple of weeks I have watched as other threads far surpass any remarks made in our thread. You cited misogynistic remarks and slurs, veiled threats  as a reason, but that was the point. That was what was at the heart of the disagreement. The fact that the game allows these types of remarks to occur on a daily basis in a game where women and children play.

Much worse is being said on threads within this main topic of Coalitions on the forum as I write this. I guess my point is that when you compare and contrast what was said in the closed thread; "Arrogant Bellators", with several other open threads you should see what I am getting at here.

Now, since Guerilla coalition has one member now, and has been utterly and completely defeated, all the rhetoric is of little consequence when it comes to the validity of the remarks of the posters, except for the allowance on a daily basis of the type of remarks you said was the reason you closed the thread in the first place.

Which was my point in the first place, the foul language, threats, taunts are allowed with no sanctions for engaging in such conduct, and I find it more than a little disingenuous that you closed our thread yet these other threads are allowed to continue.

To be fair I have seen a few warnings given by moderators, yet the thread rolls along hardly missing a beat. The sanctions for engaging in foul or vulgar language, remarks, or similar behavior should be swift, sure, and administered so that players know there are consequences to behaving in this manner.

Also, your remark to "grow up" was not necessary or appreciated, I am old enough to be many players grandfather. I consider myself mature, reasonable, and considerate. I do not engage in childlike behavior which is what your remark suggested, or was it made because you could make it to emphasize your ability to control the conversation? Either way it was unnecessary.  

Still, I feel we were not allowed to express ourselves in the forum as others are being allowed to do, and that amounts to censorship. Oh, please do me a favor and do not give me the standard party line about contacting support, we did that and nothing occurred.

Woad

Hegemon of Bellators Coalition

UTC +0:00
Bye
13 June, 2017, 10:56 AM UTC

woad said:

Irate Penguin: I tried to message you privately regarding this matter, but the messaging system was confusing and seemed not to work.

To send a personal message from within the Forum user interface, select "Send Message" below the target user's avatar, type the message into the text box provided, and click "Send". I have had no issues with forum PMs but if there are any we would be interested in hearing of these, preferably if possible with a detailed description and screenshots.

A few weeks ago you closed our thread and threatened to ban us from the forum if we continued with our thread. You gave your reasons for closing the thread, which may or may not have been valid reasons for doing so.

The reasons for closing this thread are expressed in Official Forum Rules which can be found here.

But, for a couple of weeks I have watched as other threads far surpass any remarks made in our thread. You cited misogynistic remarks and slurs, veiled threats  as a reason, but that was the point. That was what was at the heart of the disagreement. The fact that the game allows these types of remarks to occur on a daily basis in a game where women and children play.

Much worse is being said on threads within this main topic of Coalitions on the forum as I write this. I guess my point is that when you compare and contrast what was said in the closed thread; "Arrogant Bellators", with several other open threads you should see what I am getting at here.

Now, since Guerilla coalition has one member now, and has been utterly and completely defeated, all the rhetoric is of little consequence when it comes to the validity of the remarks of the posters, except for the allowance on a daily basis of the type of remarks you said was the reason you closed the thread in the first place.

Which was my point in the first place, the foul language, threats, taunts are allowed with no sanctions for engaging in such conduct, and I find it more than a little disingenuous that you closed our thread yet these other threads are allowed to continue.

Moderators monitor all forums for all Plarium games, but do so on a very part-time basis and therefore will most probably never read every single post in every single category. If I or one of my colleagues run into a post or thread which is in violation of the rules, we will act on it, but that is not to say that we will be able to weed all of them out. Also, we tend to favour reviewing the major categories such as  "Tutorials", "Game Discussions" and "Bug Reports" where most posts regarding questions or complaints are filed. Every member is very welcome to point out posts or threads he or she considers in violation of forum rules, and we will review them.

To be fair I have seen a few warnings given by moderators, yet the thread rolls along hardly missing a beat. The sanctions for engaging in foul or vulgar language, remarks, or similar behavior should be swift, sure, and administered so that players know there are consequences to behaving in this manner.

Moderators are allowed some leeway regarding when bans are applied and when a warning is considered sufficient. Generally, unless it is an egregious violation, a warning will be issued before a ban is considered, and depending on the issue these might even be multiple warnings. Writing in all-caps, for example, is strongly discouraged but a member would have to really make a nuisance of him- or herself with repeated posts in order to incur a ban. With other violations, a zero-tolerance rule might be in place. 

Perhaps surprising to some, but moderators take no pleasure in either having to admonish members for language or content and even less so do they in any way relish issuing bans. Most of us will usually err on the side of leniency, and either reprimand a member (often by PM) or close a thread rather than issuing bans. Bans, apart from being draconic (at least in the context of a forum), also very often are a disturbance in themselves and nothing pleases a moderator more than reading and answering civil posts from players who have questions or are experiencing in-game issues. REegrettably, this is often not the way it works :-).

Also, your remark to "grow up" was not necessary or appreciated, I am old enough to be many players grandfather. I consider myself mature, reasonable, and considerate. I do not engage in childlike behavior which is what your remark suggested, or was it made because you could make it to emphasize your ability to control the conversation? Either way it was unnecessary.  

I don't believe I called out any specific poster (although two received PMs from me), I'm confident that those who contributed in deteriorating said thread to a point where it wasn't much more than a trading of insults will know who this was addressed to. In my opinion, referring to some of these posts as "childish" was more of a charitable interpretation, one would hope that those engaged in this behaviour were not adults who should and do know better.

Still, I feel we were not allowed to express ourselves in the forum as others are being allowed to do, and that amounts to censorship. Oh, please do me a favor and do not give me the standard party line about contacting support, we did that and nothing occurred.

Simply because we are unable to read all posts 24/7 does not make individual reprimands censorship. By that argument, a police force catching 30% of the pickpockets in the city would make their actions discriminatory solely because they were unable to apprehend every single one. We call as and when we see them, and as noted above, every member is very welcome to call our attention to posts they consider in need of review, although we receive precious few of those.

Concerning the "party line" as you so kindly phrased it, these lines (yes there are more than one :-) are simple in regard to netiquette:

  • In-game PM contents cannot be reviewed by forum moderators and need to be addressed through customer support.
  • Issues regarding forum posts are handled by moderators, the CM and/or a forum administrator.

Cheers
P.


UTC +2:00
woad
23 June, 2017, 6:09 AM UTC

Most of your reply was exactly as I expected. We cannot, we will not, and if you do not like it, too bad. I think you missed my main point entirely, and for your enlightenment it is that vulgar, foul, and filthy language seems to be acceptable in the game. This is not new, yet some have raised it to almost an art form of dubious distinction.

Yet, even when one jumps through the myriad of hoops in an attempt to see the perpetrators sanctioned, there is little done to stop this activity. As a former US Marine, I can turn the air blue with  the best of them, but out of consideration for those who do not appreciate or welcome this type of thing I do not engage in it, probably like a majority of the players here refrain from doing so.

Taunts and challenging statements are one thing, but much of this goes beyond any normal intercourse. My wife, after this, is considering leaving the game. I do not think she is an isolated case.

While you seem to have an answer for nearly every point I made, you still had to resort to the standard party line to reinforce your argument. That was expected, for it has always been that way. Players are expected to go through many steps to try and gain satisfaction regarding any matter, only to find out there is never an answer or an answer that is lacking in any substantive way.

I found your argument regarding your mythical police force interesting, but one that fails to take into account that wrongdoers by their actions bring any discriminatory reactions on themselves by doing wrong. Therefore, they lose any consideration regarding a charge of discrimination. By that logic, the others, the 70% could claim discrimination for not being caught as they are pickpockets also.

Which, then begs the point, why is the police force satisfied with such a small percentage?, perhaps if they worked a little harder or were more diligent, or the penalty for pickpockets were harsher, the police would be more successful in raising the percentage of criminals caught. Makes one wonder if pickpockets are taken seriously.

Today is consecutive day 990 for me in the game, and I have put up with all the bugs, alternate accounts, cheating, and lack of support much like everyone else has, but this allowance of any type of language someone wants to use, a clear violation of the game rules, is simply gone on for too long and will continue as long as it is allowed. The remedy is very simple: impose sanctions for those engaging in it.

I must admit, your argument was well constructed, with all the little highlights and references to go here and do this or do that. As much as I admire the ability to do all that with the computer, it did little to address the real problem of Plarium allowing language of the type that started all this in the first place.

So, for me, no matter the reply or newly constructed argument, I am not expecting anything to change here, for once the die was cast long ago, when the "police"(Plarium) did not enforce the law(rules of the game), the perpetrators of any type of wrongdoing in the game knew that there were no sanctions or punishment for engaging in said wrongdoing, it was an open invitation to engage in any behavior one wished to engage in because there was little or no fear of sanctions. So, for me the game is in essence condoning this activity by not enforcing it's own rules.

I do understand that it is difficult to read all forum posts, and it is perhaps beyond your purview to become involved with actual communication, but common sense and decency should prevail, particularly when there is solid undeniable proof, and when all the options suggested, support, or other moderators with different titles are not catching their share of the "pickpockets".

As there was no response from support, or sanctions forthcoming, I assume this is just another part of the game that has been allowed to evolve into the current state of filth that is present on a daily basis. Since there was no official response, I see no need to beat the drum any longer regarding this matter.

UTC +0:00
Bye
23 June, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC
woad said:

[...] Since there was no official response, I see no need to beat the drum any longer regarding this matter.

Certainly, as you prefer. Thread is closed and marked for archive.
UTC +2:00
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