Who hates the current ratio on position rewards ??

61 Reply
Dracos
29 May, 2017, 5:32 AM UTC
knigochey said:

Dracos said:

knigochey said:

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


knigochey said:

Sound like lack of understanding what is going on. :) 

When you are playing more often, at least you have a chance to earn some prizes. You will never build enough troops, unless you are a coiner.  Those who want to play safe, should not do PP at all. The most crashing would be to build an army for years and lose it in instant, especially because of being inexperienced. And how can you become experienced, playing one-2 times a year?  

You mostly build Infantry, right? But they consume more, and not always effective against stronger Units. So why not send them to PPs from time to time to get some Phalanx or Cavalry?

you have to build everything you are able to. Moreover, for PP you need pikes and Golden Shields, but for good PVP, you need javs and swords. That means your barracks work for PP only halftime. Thus, without spending tons of gold, you can only build enough infantry in 6 months to hit 2-3 top positions. That is why you spend everything, any conventional units but those you reserve for raiding as you need to hit many hundreds positions. That is how you participate in tournaments and collect pieces  

You can build carthage cav and golden shields to give your barracks free space for pvp by building swords and javs
Then you have even fewer Infantry for PP. I was arguing that we cannot do PP only by infantry. You suggestion reduces the infantry use even more. You do not address my point. 
My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 
UTC +5:00
Drag-Theseus
Moderator
29 May, 2017, 6:18 AM UTC
Dracos said:


My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 
Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)
I'm just Time Lord....
UTC +7:00
Dracos
29 May, 2017, 8:12 AM UTC
Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:


My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 
Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)
Anything in the carthage line of troops is seemingly made for PP use exclusively due to their high resource to power point ratio in their respective unit type. However Knigochey was complaing? that you can't build enough light inf for PVP and PP which is simply wrong since pikes don't offer as much bank filling as gold shields and carthage cav so by building those two you can free up the light inf training for PVP and not really have much of a problem with making a PVP and PP army at the same time.
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lil_uzi94
29 May, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC
dont use imperial troops. believe in Tonya. dude is smart
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knigochey
29 May, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC
Dracos said:

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:


My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 
Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)
Anything in the carthage line of troops is seemingly made for PP use exclusively due to their high resource to power point ratio in their respective unit type. However Knigochey was complaing? that you can't build enough light inf for PVP and PP which is simply wrong since pikes don't offer as much bank filling as gold shields and carthage cav so by building those two you can free up the light inf training for PVP and not really have much of a problem with making a PVP and PP army at the same time.
I am not "complaining" , I am just contributing to SOBER analysis of the situation. LI doesn't replace HI but rather complements, especially if you participate in PP tournaments. You need EVERY type of troops to do well in PP. Let's say  your scouting jav told you about the Persan def: 800  50 10000 5000. To use Golden shields for that would be stupid in my book. Pikes would help a lot. You need every tool available. But you cannot build  enough infantry to hit dozens high lvl PP at one day, so you have to sacrifice phalanx and cavalry, too. That was my point. Do you have anything to object?   
UTC +0:00
Dracos
29 May, 2017, 11:47 PM UTC
knigochey said:

Dracos said:

Drag-Theseus said:

Dracos said:


My suggestion is a solution to your need for PVP and PP. Using carthage cav and golden shields fills bank more than pikes do thus granting a bigger payout. You need to look at PP by resource to power point ratio not simply unit types. Doing what I said gives you more to fill the bank and the needed light infantry for PVP. 
Nice  and maybe sid. pikemans..they are in good in battle against xerxes army because they are light inf. and their value is solid too :)
Anything in the carthage line of troops is seemingly made for PP use exclusively due to their high resource to power point ratio in their respective unit type. However Knigochey was complaing? that you can't build enough light inf for PVP and PP which is simply wrong since pikes don't offer as much bank filling as gold shields and carthage cav so by building those two you can free up the light inf training for PVP and not really have much of a problem with making a PVP and PP army at the same time.
I am not "complaining" , I am just contributing to SOBER analysis of the situation. LI doesn't replace HI but rather complements, especially if you participate in PP tournaments. You need EVERY type of troops to do well in PP. Let's say  your scouting jav told you about the Persan def: 800  50 10000 5000. To use Golden shields for that would be stupid in my book. Pikes would help a lot. You need every tool available. But you cannot build  enough infantry to hit dozens high lvl PP at one day, so you have to sacrifice phalanx and cavalry, too. That was my point. Do you have anything to object?   
Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.
UTC +5:00
Mullenz
30 May, 2017, 3:15 AM UTC

Dracos said:


knigochey said:


Dracos said:


Drag-Theseus said:


Dracos said:


  
Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.

You misinterpreted my words again, brother. Again: unless we are talking about lvll 50 positions, but rather 150-170, infantry, even combined with Carths is not enough to even hit one position. The bulk of the PP striking force are and will always be  heavy troops: phalanx and heavy horses: Agemas and Macs that we get from earlier payouts. 


Speaking of LI and HI production in comparison, you apparently forgot that while Pikes are weaker, they are much faster to give birth to. every 8m55s vs.  GS every 40m10s. Correspondingly,  on the basic lvl, we produce 500 power in both houses. If we are talking of resources consumption, 1 hour Pikes production gives 9000 vs 8000 GS. Thus, Pikes consume more res then Shields - so they are BETTER fo PP  They only problem - not enough. 

.  And I usually don't do more than 2k PVP points, this is most efficient range plus you don't take too much from PP

UTC +0:00
Dracos
30 May, 2017, 3:51 AM UTC
Mullenz said:

Dracos said:


knigochey said:


Dracos said:


Drag-Theseus said:


Dracos said:


  
Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.

You misinterpreted my words again, brother. Again: unless we are talking about lvll 50 positions, but rather 150-170, infantry, even combined with Carths is not enough to even hit one position. The bulk of the PP striking force are and will always be  heavy troops: phalanx and heavy horses: Agemas and Macs that we get from earlier payouts. 


Speaking of LI and HI production in comparison, you apparently forgot that while Pikes are weaker, they are much faster to give birth to. every 8m55s vs.  GS every 40m10s. Correspondingly,  on the basic lvl, we produce 500 power in both houses. If we are talking of resources consumption, 1 hour Pikes production gives 9000 vs 8000 GS. Thus, Pikes consume more res then Shields - so they are BETTER fo PP  They only problem - not enough. 

.  And I usually don't do more than 2k PVP points, this is most efficient range plus you don't take too much from PP

My point is simple, I do admit that GS is worse than Pikes for bank filling as I just did the ratio but carthage cav is better than pikes. Somewhere throughout this page Knigochey was talking about not having enough lights for PVP and PP to which I suggested not building pikes and instead the more expensive carthage units. By building carthage cav then you can build javs/swords for PVP. I understand that higher up in PP you will face more phalanx and cav units but PP isn't something you go about killing a position or two every day once you get up high unless you spend or you want to use your regular army. For the purpose of getting a larger bank using carthage cav will always be the best choice. Obviously if you want to just kill the position faster then you build pikes or Gs or even swords since they give the most bang for your buck but then the payouts won't be as good as they could be.
UTC +5:00
Mullenz
30 May, 2017, 5:54 AM UTC
Dracos said:

Mullenz said:

Dracos said:


knigochey said:


Dracos said:


Drag-Theseus said:


Dracos said:


  
Are you after a high bank or doing the PP faster? Using carthage cav and gold shields fills the bank more than pikes would. The position has a lot of cav or heavy inf? Even better since you'll need more to finish it thus filling the bank even more. If you want to clear the positions fast then just send your regular PVP army and you'll get all those juicy PP points with a reduced reward or you can take your time and build the high resource to power point ratio troops and eventually get a large payout. What I've been saying this whole time is that your initial situation was the inability to have enough light inf for PP and PVP thus I offered you a different view, treat PP as a bank and focus on filling it which means not using pikes and thus you have light inf for PVP. Doing that is most efficient in the respective ways of doing PP and PVP.

You misinterpreted my words again, brother. Again: unless we are talking about lvll 50 positions, but rather 150-170, infantry, even combined with Carths is not enough to even hit one position. The bulk of the PP striking force are and will always be  heavy troops: phalanx and heavy horses: Agemas and Macs that we get from earlier payouts. 


Speaking of LI and HI production in comparison, you apparently forgot that while Pikes are weaker, they are much faster to give birth to. every 8m55s vs.  GS every 40m10s. Correspondingly,  on the basic lvl, we produce 500 power in both houses. If we are talking of resources consumption, 1 hour Pikes production gives 9000 vs 8000 GS. Thus, Pikes consume more res then Shields - so they are BETTER fo PP  They only problem - not enough. 

.  And I usually don't do more than 2k PVP points, this is most efficient range plus you don't take too much from PP

My point is simple, I do admit that GS is worse than Pikes for bank filling as I just did the ratio but carthage cav is better than pikes. Somewhere throughout this page Knigochey was talking about not having enough lights for PVP and PP to which I suggested not building pikes and instead the more expensive carthage units. By building carthage cav then you can build javs/swords for PVP. I understand that higher up in PP you will face more phalanx and cav units but PP isn't something you go about killing a position or two every day once you get up high unless you spend or you want to use your regular army. For the purpose of getting a larger bank using carthage cav will always be the best choice. Obviously if you want to just kill the position faster then you build pikes or Gs or even swords since they give the most bang for your buck but then the payouts won't be as good as they could be.
Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build
UTC +0:00
IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS
30 May, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build


In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.
UTC +2:00
knigochey
30 May, 2017, 8:51 PM UTC

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:


Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build


In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.



Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

UTC +0:00
joshw.jboss
30 May, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC
Zsolt Antal said:

I'm  the only one wich thinks that those positions are rigged  that us  normal players to invest  more and more money  ?  

After i lost 120 agema  ,200 macedonians  ,250 imperial prom , 60 imperial horsmen  ..and a lot of other offensive troups i only recived like half i lost in the next days ..and had to spend  drachmas to revive my army  :( 

I would say that this does happen alot, but i have recieved some huge rewards too. Also, the larger persian positions usually do not give good rewards. 22-45 Give the best troop rewards; especially cohorts and towns is what I have found.
UTC +1:00
IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS
31 May, 2017, 12:00 AM UTC

knigochey said:


IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:


Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build


In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.



Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

This "40.5" on the ScreenShot is MI/H => MIles Per Hour => Unit Speed not  Production Time


http://prntscr.com/fe198b

UTC +2:00
Kakos
31 May, 2017, 1:39 AM UTC
All max out-including Amphitheatre- Carths build time is 1h 22m 28s, without Amphi is 1h 40m 53s.
Vae victis
UTC +9:00
knigochey
31 May, 2017, 7:17 AM UTC
IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

knigochey said:


IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:


Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build


In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.



Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

This "40.5" on the ScreenShot is MI/H => MIles Per Hour => Unit Speed not  Production Time


http://prntscr.com/fe198b

Yes, you are right. But that even proves the point was made: Carths and infantry are not enough to play PP on high levels 
UTC +0:00
Dracos
3 June, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC
knigochey said:

IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:

knigochey said:


IOANNIS TSIAMANTANIS said:


Mullenz said:

Believe me, nobody knows better than I what Kniochey was talking about. It was in response to the assertion that infantry nad Carth is what you need for PP. Speaking of Carths, I love them, but you cannot receive them as a payout - only to build. So, 35 a day, 1050 a month. and that is if you do not build other horses. Unless you play once 6 months, you cannot seriously rely on Carth. But you do use as many of them as you can, plus all pikes and shields you only can build


In which Server you train 35/day or 1050/month C.Horseman ?

(Sparta.com) With Max level training  speed at Academy and  Amphitheater i can train only  533/month or 21/day.

I have no idea about my server.



Here is a screen: 40mins per a baby carth. And I am only 16% in Amphitheater 

http://prntscr.com/fdzb1j

This "40.5" on the ScreenShot is MI/H => MIles Per Hour => Unit Speed not  Production Time


http://prntscr.com/fe198b

Yes, you are right. But that even proves the point was made: Carths and infantry are not enough to play PP on high levels 
I think the problem is that you want to be able to send your entire army at PP and get a massive reward out of it. You keep saying things like these units aren't enough to do the positions as if the troops die against the positions at a ratio of infinite to zero. Build up a massive amount of Carths and you'll do the position. The positions can be done fast with a smaller bank or slower with a bigger bank as it should be, if the game had it where sending 10 agema cav gave you back 15 then no one would ever do PVP and Plarium would make no money since you don't have to take your time or anything to build up an army for fighting others. 
UTC +5:00
PMC
9 June, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC
if no has figured out  what imperial units and champs do.   in my experience  it forces a payout.     the other  day I used 1000 imperial agemas  on a position   (because  I was robbed of my payout in the level 160s,  when I get mad  I don't care I will send everything I have)    I received a payout of 6700 agemas  with a 1000 mps on a level 110-115.      imperials  and champs  have some value,  but I think you are punished  for using them.     I use them all the time, but always when I am mad at the game.      the only point is to upgrade troops    so using those units  is point less      better  to use them for pvp  or cap.    but best to lose them as soon as possible  so  pans  are the  best bet.  
PMC-hahahahahah
UTC +5:00
PMC
9 June, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

there   really is no reason at all to play pp once you have 20 mil def and 20 mil off,  unless you want points. or have 150k in lights and heavies to burn off.  the only point is for a conversion of weak troops to large troops.     also  if you have precise attacks  you can stretch your troops out as far as possible.      a calculator is the only way to do this,  if you are not using a calculator you are wasting your troop units.   so  think about what the point is   of PP   and know the  rewards  are capped.

my noramal payouts  are 20 mil in def    the highest I usually see is 34 mil.    for off   the usual payouts are 15-20 mil    the highest I get  are 54mil.

if anyone has better  payouts  I would like to see them!!!   seriously.

the bank is one total bank.     so don't expect large payouts on low levels   levels are 1-170.    so the  higher  you  play the bigger the reward.    stay in the same  range of positions  and this will happen.  if you lose your army with no rewards  wait until you can knock down one more position in that range  don't  play  lower ones  until you get your payout.

also if you don't have 100k or more in lights and heavies     or at least 20 mil in phalanx and cav, you will not get big payout.    but that is the  reason there is no reason to play them,   what you put into them you get back out of them.  it is an upgrade in units  not a bigger army.     which  makes this aspect silly.

and think about this   if you are only  gonna get  a certain amount of power   once you get it    no reason to play again   as it will cost you 24 mil + for next payout.
PMC-hahahahahah
UTC +5:00
PMC
9 June, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

also  with  a  very good calculator     you can use your small winnings    and most of the time   if done right   it will add up to your  10% payback.       that is   a trick  to allow you to play  everyday...  






https://gyazo.com/16dbefcd67d5d470b24bca4798fbe563


I play a lot.   this from this week  alone.

https://gyazo.com/cc845fbbeb5f562a9cbed79a642d8b47

https://gyazo.com/8a7075f6b761a90aa9ef90d4fffeb942

PMC-hahahahahah
UTC +5:00
henrik_rothen
10 June, 2017, 7:51 PM UTC

Can you actually ever "win" or gain troops from playing PPs? I was under the impression that you invest troops = resources, and then you get back (often) BETTER troops and you get rewards from tournaments if you do them at the right time. 


But you always pay an interest to the bank, meaning you actually SPEND troops playing them? 


Or are you saying you can gain more troops than you lose, if you do it right? No other circumstances considered?
UTC +7:00
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