clarification on city defense

18 Replies
Agrippa
18 February, 2017, 1:50 AM UTC

Looking for some clarification on city defense bonuses.

If you have alliance troops assisting in the defense of your city - do they get the bonus from your wall, city defense bonus, etc. ?

If you siege another persons city, and then fight to defend it from liberation ... do you get the bonus from the walls, city defense bonus,  etc. ?

When using items that add to city defense bonus, or phylarch city defense bonus - does this assist visiting troops that are helping with city defense or just your own units?


UTC +5:00
Drag-Theseus
Moderator
18 February, 2017, 10:28 AM UTC

Hmm..Interesting question.

Yes if you and your allies should be getting bonus from your walls and from bonus which you activate, but I'm not 100% sure..

When you are under siege and you want to liberate yourself.. do it with offensive troops 


I'm just Time Lord....
UTC +7:00
Xena
Moderator
18 February, 2017, 11:22 AM UTC

Agrippa said:


Looking for some clarification on city defense bonuses.

If you have alliance troops assisting in the defense of your city - do they get the bonus from your wall, city defense bonus, etc. ?

If you siege another persons city, and then fight to defend it from liberation ... do you get the bonus from the walls, city defense bonus,  etc. ?

When using items that add to city defense bonus, or phylarch city defense bonus - does this assist visiting troops that are helping with city defense or just your own units?


Hello Archon,

Yes if you have alliance troops defending your city they get the bonus from your walls, your agreements etc.

If you siege someone else's city I think you don't get their bonuses you maintain your own bonuses (from agreements, elixirs, general etc). Not really sure about this one though.

When you use items that add defense to your city defense bonus or the bonuses from the phylarch the troops that defend your city also get those bonuses, from what I know, not just your own units. 

Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Bye
18 February, 2017, 12:24 PM UTC

AFAIK the rules are simple: 

  • all bonuses assigned to troops (general, potions, ...) will always be assigned to one's own troops, regardless where they are stationed or deployed to.

  • all bonuses assigned to cities will apply to defending troops, one's own or others contributing to defense. Liberating troops do not receive this bonus since they are offensive units anyway.


But I'll repeat the caveat of the others who have commented: I'm not sure, though confident of being right. I don't believe the issue is covered either in the Wiki nor the Guide, but I do try to check the math on my troop strengths and this seems to tally with the above.

UTC +2:00
Agrippa
18 February, 2017, 9:45 PM UTC

thanks for the answers ...  that helps


Our biggest question is still out there (I might have worded it poorly) I will try again.


If someone poor player out there spends the time and money to build up his walls/decorations/oracle/etc. and has a 1000+ city defense bonus .... then I siege the city .... do my forces sieging the city get benefit from the city defense bonus when people try to liberate it? 


(I am talking about my troops defending the city from liberation or raids from other third parties that do not own the city ... not the attacking "liberating" force)

UTC +5:00
Bye
18 February, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

Agrippa said:


[...] do my forces sieging the city get benefit from the city defense bonus when people try to liberate it? [...]

As above, I strongly suspect this not to be the case. Since city defense bonuses are not displayed as a part of unit's total strength and bonuses it is difficult to do the math proof, but apart from it being quite counter-intuitive, it IS the case that towers are NOT damaged in the course of a liberation. IMO this makes it highly unlikely that towers support sieging units fighting a liberator, if so we would have the case of towers which cannot be damaged by attacks which seems even more implausible. And if towers do not contribute to the defense of a sieging army, I don't see walls or decor, and by extension city defense bonuses or Phylarch skills, doing so either.

But perhaps someone else has more reliable information, the Wiki doesn't help much.

Cheers Dio
UTC +2:00
ItBurnsWhenIPvP
18 February, 2017, 10:40 PM UTC
Agrippa said:

thanks for the answers ...  that helps


Our biggest question is still out there (I might have worded it poorly) I will try again.


If someone poor player out there spends the time and money to build up his walls/decorations/oracle/etc. and has a 1000+ city defense bonus .... then I siege the city .... do my forces sieging the city get benefit from the city defense bonus when people try to liberate it? 


(I am talking about my troops defending the city from liberation or raids from other third parties that do not own the city ... not the attacking "liberating" force)

Answer is no.
Learn Adapt and Overcome
UTC +0:00
lefeubleu
19 February, 2017, 1:25 AM UTC
Some people seem to say that your friends' defensive troops in your city benefit from your bonuses such as agreements, defense boost, bonuses from the phylarch and stuff, I'm very surprised, though I'm not an expert I would say obviously no, the only bonus that your friends can benefit from is your city defense bonus, and all boosts related to that one ! All others are personal, don't you think so ?
UTC -4:00
Xena
Moderator
19 February, 2017, 2:01 PM UTC
lefeubleu said:

Some people seem to say that your friends' defensive troops in your city benefit from your bonuses such as agreements, defense boost, bonuses from the phylarch and stuff, I'm very surprised, though I'm not an expert I would say obviously no, the only bonus that your friends can benefit from is your city defense bonus, and all boosts related to that one ! All others are personal, don't you think so ?
Well after many expirements we did as regural players we came to the conclusion that those bonuses mentioned above actually do count to the def that defends your city, no matter if it yours or someone else's. That included city defense bonus, elixirs, agreements and bonuses from the plylarch. I am not an expert either but after reading up some expiremental reports and discussing it with other experienced players we concluded to that.
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Vodkaonice
20 February, 2017, 1:48 PM UTC

Xena said:


lefeubleu said:


Some people seem to say that your friends' defensive troops in your city benefit from your bonuses such as agreements, defense boost, bonuses from the phylarch and stuff, I'm very surprised, though I'm not an expert I would say obviously no, the only bonus that your friends can benefit from is your city defense bonus, and all boosts related to that one ! All others are personal, don't you think so ?
Well after many expirements we did as regural players we came to the conclusion that those bonuses mentioned above actually do count to the def that defends your city, no matter if it yours or someone else's. That included city defense bonus, elixirs, agreements and bonuses from the plylarch. I am not an expert either but after reading up some expiremental reports and discussing it with other experienced players we concluded to that.

that is weird stuff tho.


when say a full developed and experienced player uses his defence to defend a newer poorly developed coalition member against a raid or siege, the stats from the stronger player are not used but the lower stats from the city he is defending..That would be discouraging... 

UTC +1:00
Xena
Moderator
20 February, 2017, 2:21 PM UTC
Vodkaonice said:

that is weird stuff tho.


when say a full developed and experienced player uses his defence to defend a newer poorly developed coalition member against a raid or siege, the stats from the stronger player are not used but the lower stats from the city he is defending..That would be discouraging... 

Well probably the lower level player hasn't updated his agreements to the fullest yet and hasn't built towers and gates to increase his city defense bonus. So he won't have many bonuses and yes as was mentioned above the lower level player's stats will prevail since it's his city that is being defended. But that's not discouraging at all in my opinion. In my coalition we do that all the time and it's working very well actually. We help newer players develop their cities and help them face their in game issues and we give them advice about the gameplay etc.
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Vodkaonice
21 February, 2017, 8:20 AM UTC

Xena said:


Vodkaonice said:

that is weird stuff tho.


when say a full developed and experienced player uses his defence to defend a newer poorly developed coalition member against a raid or siege, the stats from the stronger player are not used but the lower stats from the city he is defending..That would be discouraging... 

Well probably the lower level player hasn't updated his agreements to the fullest yet and hasn't built towers and gates to increase his city defense bonus. So he won't have many bonuses and yes as was mentioned above the lower level player's stats will prevail since it's his city that is being defended. But that's not discouraging at all in my opinion. In my coalition we do that all the time and it's working very well actually. We help newer players develop their cities and help them face their in game issues and we give them advice about the gameplay etc.

Obviously thats a good thing but why should your troops lose their well earned benefit when they fight in another place ?

Helping is good thats out of the question..

but having lower stats prevail is rediculous.

nowere in agreements for example it states that these only work when defending your own city..

UTC +1:00
Bye
21 February, 2017, 9:19 AM UTC

I thought I understood this issue, but now you folks have me confused? 

My understanding was that:

  1. All unit upgrades (agreements, general, potions, ...) are bound to the unit, regardless where it does battle.
  2. All city fortification upgrades are bound to the city and applied to all friendly defending units, regardless of origin.

The last posts seemed to intimate that troops defending a city not their own, acquire the upgrades and boosts of the player whose city they are defending ???

Not only is this not stated in the agreements (as mentioned above) but:

  1. If one examines the def. values of a unit stationed abroad, there no difference to local units.
  2. Selecting units stationed elsewhere provide the same off and def stats they would if selected in their own Acropolis.
And further, what about offensive units? They (hardly) fight at home? And what about coalition attacks or defenses? And the Capital and Pans? No, I'll believe it when I see an official statement :-)

Needing a morning coffee ...

Cheers Dio


UTC +2:00
Xena
Moderator
21 February, 2017, 10:16 AM UTC

Vodkaonice said:

Obviously thats a good thing but why should your troops lose their well earned benefit when they fight in another place ?

Helping is good thats out of the question..

but having lower stats prevail is rediculous.

nowere in agreements for example it states that these only work when defending your own city..

Well as far as I know that's how it works. When you send reinforcements to a city the stats of the city that is being defended prevail no matter if those stats are higher or lower than yours.

And when you besiege a city with def your stats prevail no matter if they are higher or lower than the city you besieged!
Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Bye
21 February, 2017, 10:44 AM UTC

Xena said:


Vodkaonice said:

Obviously thats a good thing but why should your troops lose their well earned benefit when they fight in another place ?

Helping is good thats out of the question..

but having lower stats prevail is rediculous.

nowere in agreements for example it states that these only work when defending your own city..

Well as far as I know that's how it works. When you send reinforcements to a city the stats of the city that is being defended prevail no matter if those stats are higher or lower than yours.

And when you besiege a city with def your stats prevail no matter if they are higher or lower than the city you besieged!

You seem to be conflating two issues. Obviously the stats of a CITY (meaning fortifications, decor, city def boosts, ...) will apply to all defending units, it would make little sense if my city walls and towers were of any use when defending abroad. But UNIT stats (agreements, potions, general, ...) are IMO bound to the player owning the troops, anything else would mean that my level 32 Cav somehow forgets how to ride a horse simply because they're not doing it a home. :-)


UTC +2:00
Xena
Moderator
21 February, 2017, 10:45 AM UTC

Diomedes said:


I thought I understood this issue, but now you folks have me confused? 

My understanding was that:

  1. All unit upgrades (agreements, general, potions, ...) are bound to the unit, regardless where it does battle.
  2. All city fortification upgrades are bound to the city and applied to all friendly defending units, regardless of origin.

The last posts seemed to intimate that troops defending a city not their own, acquire the upgrades and boosts of the player whose city they are defending ???

Not only is this not stated in the agreements (as mentioned above) but:


  1. If one examines the def. values of a unit stationed abroad, there no difference to local units.
  2. Selecting units stationed elsewhere provide the same off and def stats they would if selected in their own Acropolis.
And further, what about offensive units? They (hardly) fight at home? And what about coalition attacks or defenses? And the Capital and Pans? No, I'll believe it when I see an official statement :-)

Needing a morning coffee ...

Cheers Dio


Well I did a personal experiment a couple of days ago. Just to see if the stats of the attacker prevail or not.

I sent a coalition attack with one of my members. We both sent from 100 phalanx to a pan. Here are the pvp points each one of us got:

I personally got these pvp points: http://prntscr.com/ebhoi7

He got these pvp points: http://prntscr.com/ebhpsq

He sent the coalition attack yet we both had 10% offense enhancer on, 50% booster experience, dominion status and offensive phalanx elixirs.

His elixir was level 9: http://prntscr.com/ebhqhh  Mine was level 7.

So far except the elixir levels we are pretty much the same. And there comes the general statistics:

I don't play positions so I haven't equipped my general and here are the results: http://prntscr.com/ebhrpz

As you can all notice i have no phalanx units stats.

And here is my guy's general: http://prntscr.com/ebhs5e

As you can all see he has 12.1 extra offense on phalanx units.

So if my general stats prevailed the points I should have gotten should have been much less since my general is not equipped for phalanx units (offensive or defensive). I got 51 less pvp points than him. And don't forget he had higher level elixir for phalanx units which may have done the difference. But seeing the above wouldn't you agree that I should have gotten less pvp points if my personal general stats had prevailed? In my opinion the general of the attacker prevailed to my general's stats and that's why we got almost the same pvp points.

Maybe I'm wrong but from what I personally saw I think the attacker's stats prevail. 

Warrior Princess
UTC +2:00
Bye
21 February, 2017, 11:01 AM UTC

The more complex the example, the more difficult it is to evaluate the many variables. 

Let us do the very simplest: compare the defensive values of a single Jav stationed at ...

  1. home
  2. the city of a higher level player
  3. the city of a lower level player
  4. a pan
  5. the capital

Comparing these, one quickly discovers that the values are identical. Now assuming the game interface is not "lying" to us, this would indicate that unit strength is always calculated based on the owner's upgrades, skills and boosts,

But since unit strengths do not reflect city defenses, one would assume that these can change depending on where the unit is stationed. And at least common sense and intuition would suggest that city defenses will apply to ALL defensive units in that city ONLY.

IMO everything else flows from that.


UTC +2:00
Vodkaonice
21 February, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

Diomedes said:


The more complex the example, the more difficult it is to evaluate the many variables. 

Let us do the very simplest: compare the defensive values of a single Jav stationed at ...

  1. home
  2. the city of a higher level player
  3. the city of a lower level player
  4. a pan
  5. the capital

Comparing these, one quickly discovers that the values are identical. Now assuming the game interface is not "lying" to us, this would indicate that unit strength is always calculated based on the owner's upgrades, skills and boosts,

But since unit strengths do not reflect city defenses, one would assume that these can change depending on where the unit is stationed. And at least common sense and intuition would suggest that city defenses will apply to ALL defensive units in that city ONLY.

IMO everything else flows from that.


i am happy i have you guys to test this ^^ 

:D
UTC +1:00
Bye
21 February, 2017, 3:59 PM UTC

PS: please also note that in this post by the admin it specifies that 

"all Reinforcements located in your City will be impacted by this [city] bonus!".

UTC +2:00
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