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Wood Shortage and defending

16 Replies
lekkerdje
1 May, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

Hello


There seems to be great lack of wood in this game and most raids lack wood. Any work in progress to maybe boost wood production or create alternatives to get wood somewhere.

Besides that due to wood shortage, its better to make offensive units who are twice as strong and use half the resources.

So to make def units u have to invest twice the resources which are hard to find enough off.


And if everyone is making or getting offensive units, which units u gonna kill in tournaments as besides capitals nobody has strong enough def force to put out.


Seems that def units should be half cheaper to make and should be able to produce faster to counter the stronger offensive units which are less resource heavy since u need twice the wood to counter the offensive unit.


The resource cost to produce def units and time seems too weak when a smaller force or less resources offensive units can beat it.


greetz
UTC +2:00
boisdejustice
2 May, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

I agree with your observation that wood is generally the scarcest of the 3 resources... logical since it is the last one to get a temple (Pan) which allows increased production so players will have excess bronze earlier and excess grain before bronze. This imbalance is global for the entire game since people trade to get what they need. But is it a problem that needs to be solved by changing the game or an intended hurdle that makes it more challenging to play the game?

I think the offense/defense imbalance is required to keep the game dynamic.  I already think the game is too static and too many players just remain holed up in their City/Acropolis not taking any risks.  Making attacks more risky and less likely to succeed will only encourage a more static game and even less risk taking.  I try to be very aggressive in my playing style and I have already had two massive armies wiped out in raids where the defender outsmarted me. If you think offensive play is the better route then take that route...
MIKALOSOS
UTC -5:00
lekkerdje
2 May, 2016, 9:33 PM UTC

Make sense, maybe top players have built a defense force, buy low level players have no defense forece except some weak units.

So if u like attacking, what u gonna attack? If u mean raiding, then well people arent online 24/7.

U can't attack without defenders, as how u gonna score points when there is nothing to kill.


Besides that i would say that there should be more options in rewards from events, why does every reward give offensive units. Then offcourse it gets even harder to defend because high quality offensive units are easier to acquire.

Which again leaves everyone with mostly offensive units and nobody with defending units.


Also since defending require more units, u run into grain problems with more units as new players which again makes it more useless to defend as u need to many units when u dont have the city to provide it yet and support the army.


Also the reason why people are holed up is because most offensive armies are too strong and defending is pointless. A small offensive army can easily take out a much bigger army of def units which take longer to build and acquire.

Mostly because elite rewards give free horses but no mounted peltast. thats alot of free damage that if u need to counter that with your own defensive units its very hard. So its better to hide.
UTC +2:00
boisdejustice
3 May, 2016, 9:11 PM UTC

I do agree that most of the players choose offense but that contributes to a more dynamic game... if more players chose to defend the game could become too static.  You can still frequently catch cities with 1/2 day production of units sitting in the open so finding targets is not really that difficult.

Now one area where I think a change is warranted is the PPs.  Why? because the offensive and defensive positions of a given level are about equal in strength while most players have much more offense than defense in their armies.  It is much more costly to engage the defensive positions and a bigger portion of the total city units are lost.  I think that a defensive PP should be 2/3 the strength of the same level offensive PP or the game should uncover new positions in a 1/3 to 2/3 ratio.

While I cleared all PPs early in the game since reaching the higher levels I have only been able to clear the offensive positions which compounds the problem.  Defensive PPs often payout out in Thureophoros and Mounted Peltast but if I only work on offensive PPs I end up with lots of offensive cavalry and Promachos.
MIKALOSOS
UTC -5:00
lekkerdje
5 May, 2016, 2:21 AM UTC

well i think coalition rewards from the events need to have choice between defense units or offensive like for the big events.

U can create a very strong offensive army just by getting those rewards. So there is no way to build enough defense unless much later in the game.

This also feels that there is not much life in cities.


Sure i like raiding people safely without a chance to loose units, but this feels boring after a while as i think 1/200 cities might actually have defense up and mostly thats even help from higher levels who send support force.

I think if people could choose between defensive and offensive units, there would be more balanced armies and bigger battles.

Unless u been playing for a long time, u will never be able to produce enough defensive units to counter the free ones.

From getting the elite rewars i have a small army of macedonian which to counter with javelinns and psicos which build very slow is impossible. Since it takes a while to be able to build peltast and which arent even strong against horses, require lotsa resources and slow to build.


And yes killing off people weak production doesnt give enough points and is waste of time, sure u can check and raid every city for their 50 points or something, when events require 10000 points to score decently high. So its quite impossible lol.

Im pretty sure most players will be suprised if they send a raid and expect resitance unless its a high level players. Its almost 95% sure that your raid cant fail, due to the lack of units u can produce or lack of supply from defending units.

Anyway this is a non-coiner perspective level 57 now, playing for three weeks.





UTC +2:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
5 May, 2016, 9:53 AM UTC
You can get Wood from different sources, not only from your own production and Raiding. Resources are not designed to be in easy access. You must fight for them 
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Rob May
6 May, 2016, 2:35 PM UTC

defensive or offensive units cost same, and takes same time to build


yes it might be 1 strong offensive units vs 3 weaker defensive unit, but they combined resource cost and production time will be same.


once u finish all upgrades and all agreements, timber or bronze is more or less, you build unit types based on what resoruces you have so you use them most effectivelly

UTC +0:00
boisdejustice
6 May, 2016, 9:23 PM UTC

Rob

I absolutely don't agree with you... At every level the defensive units are much weaker than their offensive counterpart.  For example Thorakites vs Promachos... or Legate vs Agema.  The game also pays out loads of offensive units (I have received scores of Agemas) and almost none of the corresponding defending units (When was the last time you received 200 legates from PPs?).

I don't think it's a bad thing as it favors a more dynamic game but your answer is incorrect.  Every player in my coalition has much stronger offensive forces than defensive ones and not by choice.  Even if I pick 100% defensive units in tourney rewards I still end up with way more offense than defense usually in a ratio 3-to-1 or higher. 

MIKALOSOS
UTC -5:00
boisdejustice
6 May, 2016, 9:34 PM UTC

As far as the wood is concerned the imbalance is real... while you can raid, trade and mine protectorates or Emporia for wood the reality is that the global amount of wood that "enters" the game every day is less than bronze which is less than grain.

This is because whether you raid, trade for it or take it from a protectorate it has first been produced and wood is the last of the three resources that gets a boost from development.  All cities produce more grain than bronze and more bronze than wood. Otherwise, why would grain always trade 2-to-1 for wood or bronze?  And why would bronze trade on average at 1.2 for wood?
MIKALOSOS
UTC -5:00
lekkerdje
6 May, 2016, 11:29 PM UTC

i believe free units and unable to choose from defending or offensive units are the biggest problem. I guess people like attacking, but what u gonna attack if no one puts out his defense because it will get obligerated.


Besides that i think grain consumption for defense units should be much lower. Having to build 3x more units who consume the same grain as 1 offensive units, is alot to support and impossible for a growing city.

I guess these problems will go away with eleusis maybe, but for lower level cities , its very hard to be able to build enough defense units without going in the red.

Thats why i stop building defense now, because i cant support that many troops when a more powerfull offensive army is just way easier to maintain.


This makes defending at lower levels impossible which makes u feel helpless and stupid. Even if u want to grow a large defense, u just cannot do it and u need to wait till u get the right articles to lower consumption.


As example a small horse army of 20 is 22k power, try building 22k defense in javs, psicos and peltast, these are shitloads of units u need to counter free units.

Give people the option to choose. That way we can have more balanced armies and more battles as people will have more def units to waste and more options.

UTC +2:00
Rob May
7 May, 2016, 9:43 AM UTC

boisdejustice said:


Rob

I absolutely don't agree with you... At every level the defensive units are much weaker than their offensive counterpart.  For example Thorakites vs Promachos... or Legate vs Agema.  The game also pays out loads of offensive units (I have received scores of Agemas) and almost none of the corresponding defending units (When was the last time you received 200 legates from PPs?).

I don't think it's a bad thing as it favors a more dynamic game but your answer is incorrect.  Every player in my coalition has much stronger offensive forces than defensive ones and not by choice.  Even if I pick 100% defensive units in tourney rewards I still end up with way more offense than defense usually in a ratio 3-to-1 or higher. 

its fine that you don't agree me with me, but well I'm correct :)


funny that in my coalition we have more defense than offense:) maybe because we hold pantheons? :)


you can't get legates or any other denarii troops from PP, but you can get defensive troops for sure. After you fill up your bank, well depends what do you invest, could be 50:50, 50% offensive to red position and then another 50% defensive to green positions to make up your 100% bank. or could be one-sided just lets say using only offensive on red positions to fill up bank.

Then simply finish red position for big payout of offensive troops, or green one for big payout of defensive troops. (you can have some mix from other category during payout as well)


Easily manageable if you know how PP works and how to track your bank, then you can do things such as load with offensive and get defensive out for example.


here is your comparison of promachos vs thorakites,(i use elixirs lvl 8 and DOM9 as example, agreements lvl 20, scrolls maxed, 50 and 40 respectively):

promachos: 1352.25 dmg building time 1hr 40min 53sec, 153 633 total resource cost

thorakites: 629.7 def(average), 751.3 def(vs phalanx) building time: 46min 25sec , 166 738 resource cost


lets have a look at 24hour build for both and compare their power:

promachos: 19 581

thorakites: 19 811average, vs phalanx(promachos) 23 634


promachos would be dead meat, add lvl 5 pantheon bonus of 25% def, even more meat

add up to 94% extra defense bonus from fully developed city, you are looking over 51k defense vs these 19.5k offense promachos:) meat, meat, meat and steaks:)



UTC +0:00
rhondajhowes
9 May, 2016, 10:07 AM UTC
Thanks all. Good advice
UTC +10:00
Kakos
9 May, 2016, 11:13 AM UTC
Rob May said:

meat, meat, meat and steaks:)

Hmm.. you're not a vegetarian I take it..  
Vae victis
UTC +9:00
lefeubleu
10 May, 2016, 11:06 AM UTC

It's true that wood and bronze aren't quite balanced. Look at the port, people who offer wood ask for more bronze...

Also, something that should be changed is the temple of Pan which  goes to lvl5 only while the other one can be upgraded to lvl7.
UTC -4:00
morteeee
Moderator
10 May, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

I am the opposite, always running short of bronze! 


maybe its because I like to kill ALL the things ;)
History is written by the victors
UTC +1:00
wire
22 May, 2016, 8:07 AM UTC
Like MORTEEEE said i am always running short of bronze got a lot of defender protecting pan's and capital but it hard to keep up with bronze for offence because i am killing there defense. But found i can build a lot of offence and when the timber gets high i trade it for bronze to people who are trying to build just defender at  1 timber for 1.5 bronze or i add a 100 thur's to my build.
UTC +7:00
ThatBloke
24 May, 2016, 6:45 AM UTC

I'm mostly short of grain... :p


I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
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