Gorgo said:

you dont see the point do you ? i said that if he wouldnt expose this ISSUE you would kept lying that all is fine even if small payouts are now smaller...dont tell me that you had in plan to tell us that you lowered mini-partials ? you just had to now cover your butts cause someone had enough of lying and we are all glad that someone stepped forward and say that outloud...otherwise would be ill qoute:

"hello did you change persians ? 

NO archon no changes were made"

am i wrong ? this happened before..

We'll tell you if a major change takes place. This change was minor, but there was a major bug involved, so we're telling people about it.

It's a bit of a problem if somebody is spreading the wrong idea. Do you really hate us for trying to clarify the matter?

I'm pretty sure that particular exchange of words hasn't happened before. Like I said before, we'll let you know if there has been a major change worth mentioning.

I wrote it over there already;

http://forum.plarium.com/en/sparta-war-of-empires/game-discussion/topics/thureophoros-vs-trojan-thorakites-and-spartan-promachos-vs-sarissophoros/1/#109487/

And I read all the posts in this one here also, so I'm not gonna repeat the posts in here, just some questions;

@  The ElitePhanteom;

you explained self now, that your partial pay-out was smaller then what normally was. 

I can accept the fact that the big pay-out didn't changed (at least that is what Plarium Games tell) . But players need these small (partial pay-outs ) also to be able to continue in the game, and that seems no one of the administrators, moderators and game support able to understand. 

It's not ---> big pay-out ---> doing the PP's with it ----> used them all and then ===> big pay-out again.

If I gain big pay-out , let's say 10.000 phalanx units. And for all the others in between I need 1000 phalanx units and gain back from that PP 500 phalanx units.  I need these 500 phalanx units also to be able to continue in the game to come to the point where I can have my big pay-out again.If I gain at that PP only 100 phalanx units, I'm gonna have big problems to be able to continue and reach my next big pay-out.    If the partial pay-out between the 2 big pay-outs is smaller, then players can come to a point where they used all their army and not able to reach the bank pay-out again                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

And that in combination with 'overbanking' so that you have to pay a lot of intrest before you can reach your next pay- out, that is putting a lot of none coiners to the side of " quiting the game " instead of "keeping them in the game". 

Even for me; I know what my big pay-out is. And I also now what I need to reach that big pay - out again. but if I come to a point now that I doesn't gain enough partial pay - outs between my 2 big pay - outs ....   Well then it's also game over for me, because there's no way to build them again for it. 

You are correct.  We have adapted to the partial payouts since the last change and to see players who have been working for days, weeks months even to slowly chip away at a level 100+ position get rewarded with 100 swordsman is a slap in the face.  I can see why player's are rather upset.

ArchEtos said:

You are correct.  We have adapted to the partial payouts since the last change and to see players who have been working for days, weeks months even to slowly chip away at a level 100+ position get rewarded with 100 swordsman is a slap in the face.  I can see why player's are rather upset.

The 100 swordsmen payout is a bug related to old positions. New positions are working as intended. If you got 500 phalanx units before the update, expect to get 450 afterwards.

If you do the math, you can figure it out for yourself also.

I need to do + -  30  persian positions to have my big pay -out.  I also need the partial pay-outs to be able to continue with the PP's. And these big pay - outs it's not that I gain thousands and thousands on surplus then what I needed to finish them. 

If we use your example; 

 500 ( partial pay - out) X 30 = 15.000 units. 

450 ( partial pay -out minus +- 10% )  X 30 = 13.500 units.  I'm supposed to build these 1500 also now ?   

For defence phalanx units = troyans = 52 minutes. so make it easy for the math here , I can build 1 every hour , so I need 1500 hours defined by 24 (hours in a day) = 62.5 days = 2 months.   That I have to build these troops extra and that I may not use for other battle's. 

For offence phalanx units = promachos = 1 h 53 minutes, so make it easy for the math here, I can build 12 each day. And I need 1500 of them extra for the PP's so 1500 / 12 = 125 days = 4 months building time .  

And that is for 1 persian position 

So your 10% reduced partial pay - outs is actually for the players ( and I shall give myself as example) 30% more building time in the game. I play 14 months now this game here. So for the lvl's I do now at the PP's, I'm gonna have to spend another 4 months extra buiilding time.                 

We all know that the gamedeveloppers never plays the game self. So they never realise what a so called "small change" has a huge effect on the game. 

Hundigo said:

I need to do + -  30  persian positions to have my big pay -out.  I also need the partial pay-outs to be able to continue with the PP's. And these big pay - outs it's not that I gain thousands and thousands on surplus then what I needed to finish them. 

If we use your example; 

 500 ( partial pay - out) X 30 = 15.000 units. 

450 ( partial pay -out minus +- 10% )  X 30 = 13.500 units.  I'm supposed to build these 1500 also now ?   

You aren't withdrawing those 1500 units so you don't need to redeposit them. Instead of needing to do +/- 30 positions, you can do +/- 27. That's not a problem the change is creating.

The real problem it's trying to solve is this sort of situation.

A player weakens 23 level 125 positions to 1 bar to the point where a swordsman or javelineer could finish them. He collects the big payout by finishing the 24th level 125 position. Bam, more units than he ever wanted, but that's not all. He then finishes the other positions to collect 23 partial payouts, but since they're level 125, they're pretty big in their own right. The bank goes into the negatives by a couple hundred million.

The numbers turned out that only a few players managed to do this sort of thing, but it got to a point where this strategy was severely overpowered.

Even with the recent nerf, the strategy still works, but slightly less so.

first point ; By my knowledge you don't get 24 positions at lvl 125 all at the same time. 

Second point; now you tell that for my example I didn't withdrawing these 1500 unit's so I don't have to redeposit them. ....   So then the change is even worser, you end up with less troops 

    And there's a different with finishing PP's and the troops you need for it and the pay-out. So when you reduced the partial pay -out with 10%, it doesn't mean or is equal that I need minus 10% troops for it to finish them. So my example can stay, because I shall end up that if I wish to continue with the PP's that I shall have to build first the troops for it that I gained less back in the actual partial pay-outs. Because I would still need these troops first or I shall not be able to finish them all. 

Aleksandra Miroshyna said:

The real truth behind Position has been posted here, Archon. If you have any questions regarding this matter, I'll be glad to answer on them.

Well I have indeed some questions about it.  You can read the posts I've placed already on this thread about it.   And there's also a link in one of my post that I pointed out the problem before your topic. 

1)  The answer from moderator TheElitePhanteom I don't accept as be correct. 

a) if players could manage to have 24 lvl 125 positions all at the same time, it would be verry unuasal at all. So if that would be the problem, the game could solve that problem to restrict the numbers of the same lvl positions you can have at the same time. 

b) to reduce the partial pay - out by 10% doesn't mean that the next persian positions are 10% less strong. So how we have to manage that ? After all we had to addapt that new system in the game. . 

2)  a lot of players in the game (including my members in the coalition ) learned to work with the 1 bar method. In several threads here on this forum it's mentioned as a prooved method about the persian positions. It's even more, when players came up here on this forum with complains about the persian positions, the previous administrator Basileus recommanded the blog that explained verry clear that the 1 bar method is the only method to be guaranteed of the big pay-out. So what about the forumusers that actually looked on the forum to learn about the game ?   

3) on general, it's not that players do the PP's at one shot to bring them down to 1 bar. Actually they build troops for it every day and that for days, weeks and even months. Everytime they log in , they send their fresh trained troops to the PP's , till at the point they are at 1 bar. What about them now ? 

EDIT I;

and I have just now send a ticket to gamesupport about the persian positions. You better check that one also. And you are an administrator so you can check the acts from my account also about the persian positions.   So answer me correctly and explain how this can happen ?  

The result shall be that I take 100 members and about 200 other players to another game.

EDIT II;

#XHJ-797-21238   that's the ticket number . 

EDIT III;

and don't come up with the answer that I have to continue that I shall have my big pay - out again . I play 14 months this game. I just had to attack with all the troops that i had build up  / gained in the game with the quests and is not enough to continue on new fresh persian positions like you mentioned in this topic. To make it clear, what you gain from the persians positions is not enough to clear them again out. 

I ended up from 26.000 units 3 weeks ago  to 2900+ units now. And I still have doesn't have my big pay-out again .   That's the new update we had in reality. I'm not feeling responsible to revive units for it what I self have build or gained by the quests. 

EDIT IV; and get that other administrator that only can write chronicles related to Lost Souls coalition out of here. There are much more coalitions in the game then only Lost Souls. An administrator that only writes topics about Lost Souls coalition, asks other forumusers to respond on it and he self never comes back to that topic.It was also me that had to explain the violations that administrator of Plarium Games used all the time on the forum before it would ever stop. 

if you administrator not  gonna be able to solve that problem, you gonna end up that the game shall never be allowed on every European server. It was for the first time already on the European table at friday the 29 janauri behind close doors. They still continue to monitor this game. Your moderators and administrator Basileus knew about these facts, I had placed it also on this forum. 

And ones the decision is made by the European parlement, then the verdict will also be that way . And then of course Plarium Games shall react on it. When it's too late 

That of course is to the previlege to be a lawyer also 

Edit I ;

your moderators and specially TheElitePhanteom and moderator ThatBloke laughed with my post and insulted me all the thime with it  But I don't laugh at all. So let's have it. Be correct Plarium Games or face the consequences to be wipped out on every European Server 

Hundigo said:

Well I have indeed some questions about it.  You can read the posts I've placed already on this thread about it.   And there's also a link in one of my post that I pointed out the problem before your topic. 

Please refrain from posting unrelated comments. 

a) if players could manage to have 24 lvl 125 positions all at the same time, it would be verry unuasal at all. So if that would be the problem, the game could solve that problem to restrict the numbers of the same lvl positions you can have at the same time. 

Thank you for this suggestion, Archon. I don't think that players would be happy to see that they don't get the Persian Positions of high levels, also that would not resolve the issue.

b) to reduce the partial pay - out by 10% doesn't mean that the next persian positions are 10% less strong. So how we have to manage that ? After all we had to addapt that new system in the game. . 

This mean that the rest of your reward will be received with the big payout. You may use your usual strategy for the Persian Positions in order to destroy them. You should just remember that your rewards depend on your losses. 

2) a lot of players in the game (including my members in the coalition ) learned to work with the 1 bar method. In several threads here on this forum it's mentioned as a prooved method about the persian positions. It's even more, when players came up here on this forum with complains about the persian positions, the previous administrator Basileus recommanded the blog that explained verry clear that the 1 bar method is the only method to be guaranteed of the big pay-out. So what about the forumusers that actually looked on the forum to learn about the game ?   

As I already said, you may use your usual strategies. 

3) on general, it's not that players do the PP's at one shot to bring them down to 1 bar. Actually they build troops for it every day and that for days, weeks and even months. Everytime they log in , they send their fresh trained troops to the PP's , till at the point they are at 1 bar. What about them now ? 

Your future mini payouts on Persian Positions will be as good as before.

and I have just now send a ticket to gamesupport about the persian positions. You better check that one also. And you are an administrator so you can check the acts from my account also about the persian positions. So answer me correctly and explain how this can happen ?  

I'm Community Manager and I can't answer on your tickets, Archon. Support team will check your issue and give you a reply.

and don't come up with the answer that I have to continue that I shall have my big pay - out again . I play 14 months this game. I just had to attack with all the troops that i had build up / gained in the game with the quests and is not enough to continue on new fresh persian positions like you mentioned in this topic. To make it clear, what you gain from the persians positions is not enough to clear them again out.  I ended up from 26.000 units 3 weeks ago to 2900+ units now. And I still have doesn't have my big pay-out again . That's the new update we had in reality. I'm not feeling responsible to revive units for it what I self have build or gained by the quests. 

Archon, there are a ot of strategies for Persian Positions from experienced players. However, if you don't want to risk your Troops, you may use enjoy different game aspects. 

and get that other administrator that only can write chronicles related to Lost Souls coalition out of here. There are much more coalitions in the game then only Lost Souls. An administrator that only writes topics about Lost Souls coalition, asks other forumusers to respond on it and he self never comes back to that topic.It was also me that had to explain the violations that administrator of Plarium Games used all the time on the forum before it would ever stop. 

Administrators do not write these articles, Archon. If you want to write such a text about different Coalition, I would be glad to see it. 

1)  Moderator TheElitePhanteom wrote that there were players that managed to have 24 lvl 125 persian positions at the same time and that causes the problem. So the problem occured that players finished 23 PP's at 1 bar, and then finished that 24. And they had made it possible to finish the other 23 with a verry small amount of troops, so they had also a partial pay-out at that moment. What moderator TheElitePhanteom doesn't mention at all, that these players had to use first a big amount of troops for it to bring them to that low bar.

So reducing to be able to have 24 lvl125 at the same time  or make it not possible to have 24   lvl 125  persian positions at all, that is the solution for it. It doesn't mean that players can't have high lvl positions anymore. They can't have the highest lvl's all at the same time anymore. 

2) We had to addapt the new strategie of the persian positions. And the new strategie is/was that you get partial pay-outs also now. That also means we had a new strategie about the persian positions. Reducing the partial pay-outs and then tell that your big pay-out stays intact, doesn't mean a solution for the players at all that addapted the new method at that time. 

If I need 2.000 promachos to be able to finish a lvl persian position. And my partial pay-out was 1.000 promachos. Then I used the strategie: doing 2 PP's, and I can finish the third one with what I gained back as partial pay-out from the two previous ones. Reducing the partial pay-outs , that also means I can not finish that third one because my partial pay-out isn't enough anymore. Because I still need 2.000 promachos for it and I gained not 2.000 back in my partial pay-outs but only 1.800 back. So to continue I have to build these 200 promachos first. Or I can't continue the game. That's 2 weeks building time. If I calculate the time between 2 big pay-outs what it normally is for me, that's 4 months extra building time. 

So the losses stays the same even for the PP's between the big pay-out. But the reward isn't, even I had the same amount of losses as before. And telling now that they are now in the next big pay-out and not in the partial pay-outs anymore, doesn't solve the problem for the players. Because now it's not possible to reach that next big pay-out with an extra 4 months building time.  Plarium Games hopes probably that players would revive their units instead of building them ? So with the new mechanisme , you trow players back for 1/3 of their playing time. 

3) Strange point here you mentioned here. Players did that 1 bar method to destroy the PP's. So even the players that had 24 lvl 125 persian positions.  You answered at the start of your post that my suggestion wouldn't be a solution for the players.  The same strategie can stay, you say now. There is even not any reason to solve the issue of having 24 lvl 125 persian positions. So if the 1 bar method can stay and for Plarium Games not a reason to restrict the amount of same high lvl positions you can have at the same time. Then why you had to reduce the partial pay-outs in the first place ? it will only slow them down for a few months. Or when they revive their troops for it, it doesn't slow them not at all. Because their big pay-out shall contain more troops then they had before. Because it's based on the losses, well the losses stays the same of course. So at the end, they must receive more troops as big pay-out then what they had before as big pay-out. 

4) Let Gamesupport answer my ticket. I don't ask you to answer it. But as administrator you can check what my point is in there. You told self that the pay-out is based on your losses. I already wrote it before. I had members that lossed ALL their troops at the PP's . So they came to a point that they didn't had any troops anymore left. They still hadn't their big pay-out. They simply can't reach it anymore. And many of them quit the game. 

I have the same issue now; my big pay-out was +-11.000 promachos or +-5.000 agema's. My losses now are way much over these numbers. I'm about 60% over these numbers now already. So now I came also to a point where I can't continue in the game  anymore. Because I don't get my normall pay-out wich I should had it already. So how much you actually have to loose ? When players already come to a point where there lossed ALL their army = big pay-out they had for it + all the partial pay-outs + all the troops they had build self already in the game + all the troops they had gained from quests they did. 

The whole bank system of the persian positions is actually something real fake. There is none that really can confirm it. I asked in that ticket I have send to gamesupport also, tell me now how much troops I still have to use to have my big pay-out.  My big pay-out must be so overwelming now, because I lost almost all my army for it. My losses now are way much more then the big pay-out I get normall. 

The 23 remaining positions don't have to be level 125. Anything above level 100 would give similar results, but level 125 would give the best results. 

You don't need to weaken them all at the same time. You can weaken a few, collect a big payout elsewhere, and save them for when you need to finish them.

With all changes, adapt accordingly. Tweak your old strategy and loading patterns a little bit to accommodate the change.

let the administrator answer in this topic moderator TheElitePhanteom. I don't disrespect you but I tell you , you are only a moderator and that means also a player like everybody else. I need answers now from an administrator and that administrator wrote she was in to answer any qeustion we had on it. 

You made it verry clear in your post that you was talking about players that are lowerd only lvl 125 persian positions to 1 bar. 

Don't come up now with another message. 

The whole persian system is become one big rip off of every players army. 

Gaines are based on the losses the players had at the persian positions the administrator maked it verry clear.I started  3 weeks ago with 26.000 units.  Well I lost about 22.500 units and could only gain 11.000 units or 5.000 units in the past. So are you able to do the math what I have lost now ?   And I still doesn't have my big pay-out.   I'm really struggling in the game now, and all my members know verry well about the issue. If I can't finish that lvl 125 position now and have my big pay-out , what has to be much more then the normal 11.000 promachos or 5.000 agema's I get for it . Then it's game over and every member of my coalition quit also the game. 

Gains are based on the losses you had at the persian positions, the administrator told in the post. I started with 26.000 units included the 11.000 promachos I had from a big pay - out.   I lost these 11.000 promachos, I lost these partial pay-outs, I lost also the other army I had already in the game ; either build or gained by quests. How much troops I have to loose more ?   I came to a point where I don't have any troops left anymore in the game then only the ones that are send out in the coalition as reinforcements .   How much more I have to loose ?  Also these troops ? 

I play the game for 14 months now.   The administrator mentioned also in their post; when you don't wish to take the risk of loosing your troops at the persian positions, you can do other elements in the game. I can't when I have for the moment 22.500 high value troops at the bank from the persian positions now. 

So it's gonna be up to Plarium Games now to give the correct answer about the persian positions. Because now you use the system to steal troops from the players and then come up here that it's all about a "bank system" it's all about "losses" at the PP's but can't explain one single letter to the players neither about the bank system, neither about their losses. 

It's one of the big issue's ofcourse for the European Parlement now with the claim other players has put against Plarium Games and asked the European gouvernement to investigate the whole game for it. 

How much losses players must have at the PP's ? Can you tell it moderator TheElitePhanteom ? Refering to the banksystem of the PP's ?  How much is it actually for each individual player ? 

You can't explain at all why i lost 22.500 units for the moment and still doesn't has my pay-out.   It's based on losses you had on the PP's.   I didn't had enough losses already ? I only gained 11.000 promachos or 5.000 units agema's for it.   Why I have come to a point where I have to loose all of my whole army that I had build up in these 14 months I play the game ? 

EDIT I; so start with that 11.000 promachas as pay - out. And that from 26.000 high value units in total.   So how much players must actually use at the PP's when they gain 11.000 promachos ?   I'm talking about lvl 125. And I only do lvl 125 of the PP's because when you have finished a lvl 125 you get a new lvl 125.  Pay-outs are also based on the lvl of the persian positions you do, that was one of the answer that moderator ThatBloke gived on the forum. So there's no way I'm gonna do lower lvl's, even I have them in my oracle. 

When I finished a lvl 125 persian position, I get a new lvl 125 persian position. So it's a new fresh one. Also one of the elements that the administrator mentioned in the posts as one of the required elements to have for  your pay-out. 

@ the administrator  ,

I still didn't had my answer from gamesupport about the issue. I wrote another one today, after all it's far more then the 24 hours timeframe . 

#COS-150-24261

So at least you can do is tell gamesupport that they have to answer the players when they have send out a ticket to them. 

I moved my city. Now all of the cities on my enemies list are a long way away. Is there any way to generate a new enemies list?

Hundigo said:

@ the administrator  ,

I still didn't had my answer from gamesupport about the issue. I wrote another one today, after all it's far more then the 24 hours timeframe . 

#COS-150-24261

So at least you can do is tell gamesupport that they have to answer the players when they have send out a ticket to them. 

There is no need to create several tickets regarding the same question. It may only slow the process. If you sent a request to Support team, they will definitely reply you. However, since at this moment they are receiving  higher volumes than usual, their response may be given with a delay.

1) No administrator will answer you here, so you're losing your time (and ours) writing "let the administrators answer".

If this is really what you would like, then just open ONE ticket and wait for the answer : there, and only there, an administrator will answer you, and you don't need (and moreover, WE don't need you) to pollute this forum if you wish to talk with administrators, so please don't post anything here and get your problem solved with them using the support center. Thank you.

2) Technically speaking, full payouts values are only depending on the level from which you get it.

Many people think they will get something related to their investment, but it's not the case. Every level has a minimum and maximum reward values, and your full payout will be taken between these two limits (I have a full reference table).

As such, the fact partial payouts have been cut down to 1/10th of the values we got previously is quite a problem. It's untrue to tell you'll get the difference later when you'll get the full payout, as it won't actually change anything, so count carefully, so you conclude on a level high enough to give you something worthy.

Of course, it's also false to tell you'll get partial payouts as previously : they're now ridiculously low, period. So only the full payouts are worthy (fortunately, they are). But it's true you'll get full payouts as previously (but they won't be higher because the partials are lower).

3) What has really changed is the total payouts will be smaller, so your next banks to pay back will be lower, which can be a good news, especially for people who were used to chip positions down to 1 bar, as partial payouts are now almost negligible, so finishing positions or not won't change much now (in short, do as you want).