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Champion unit is useless.

29 Replies
bdragon11140
25 February, 2016, 5:33 AM UTC

Funny side of this game.

1. High price unit always first die and die most amount.

2. Champion unit is die first.


If I have 10000 cavs and 1000 cataphract then cataphract will be die first always.

If I have 10000 cavs and 500 cataphract, few catapheact will die when light battle, many(almost) cataphract will die when severe battle.

If I have 10000 cavs and 100 cataphract, no cataphract will die when light battle, some cataphract will die when severe battle.


Champion unit is just cash cow for game company.

UTC +9:00
BongyKong
25 February, 2016, 10:17 AM UTC

bdragon11140 said:


Funny side of this game.

1. High price unit always first die and die most amount.

2. Champion unit is die first.


If I have 10000 cavs and 1000 cataphract then cataphract will be die first always.

If I have 10000 cavs and 500 cataphract, few catapheact will die when light battle, many(almost) cataphract will die when severe battle.

If I have 10000 cavs and 100 cataphract, no cataphract will die when light battle, some cataphract will die when severe battle.


Champion unit is just cash cow for game company.











The battles work on a %...so lets say for sake of argument and I'm too lazy to work it out perfectly that 10k Cav is 25mill + 1k Cats which wouldn't be maxed out because they'd need 20k Cav all together was 40mill(not correct but irrelevant)so you have a 40mill attack force v a 10mill def force...so a total of 50mill(forget CDB,Dom % and Elix's)
You having 80% of the total battle would lose 20% of your troops and the defender 80%,so that would be 200 cats 2k Cav...Champs don't die at a higher rate/percentage than other troops 





UTC +10:00
bdragon8
25 February, 2016, 12:24 PM UTC

BONGYKONG// It's not true.

If i send 100cats, 2000agema, 100scorpio, 2000evocatus, 200 locha, 4000spartan hops, 100sminias, 10000hops and enemy is many of heavy and light infantry.

Then casualty will be like this, 20 cats, 100 agma, 15scorpio, 80 evocatus, 3 locha, 20 spartan hops, 1 sminias, 5 hops.

If you send like this form then will know.
UTC +9:00
ThatBloke
25 February, 2016, 1:39 PM UTC

After the combat issue is resolved, a percentage of losses for each player, is calculated and applied evenly to ALL troops.

So if you have 1000 of a kind and 100 of another kind, and your losses ratio is 20%, then you'll lose 200 of the first kind and 20 of the other kind.

Then numbers are rounded to the closest unit.



If you want to minimize your losses, you have to overwhelm the opponent, so your losses ratio is small, and you have to send fewer quantities of the units you want to lose the less (with roundings, quantities can be rounded down to 0 for some of them), and more of the ones you don't care.

I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
BongyKong
25 February, 2016, 10:36 PM UTC

bdragon ALT1 or bdragon ALT2


its percentage every time...show me a SS of a battle where you lose a different percentage on troops,doesn't happen you lose the same percentage of all troops..champs or reg!
UTC +10:00
ThatBloke
28 February, 2016, 2:31 AM UTC

Yes, the percentage is fixed for all troops.


And yes, nicely spotted... ^^ Looks like we've got quite some forbdden alt accounts here... :p


I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
lefeubleu
29 February, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

Well first you shouldn't have 1000 cataphracts :p

But I guess it might be possible to lose more champions in case they are not supported by special units, like in the examples you first told, dragons man : 1 000 cataphracts with 10 000 cav is far less powerful than with 20 000 cac. In this case, the champions are more vulnerable, aren't they ? Or is it just their hitting strength which is reduced ?

UTC -4:00
ThatBloke
1 March, 2016, 8:36 AM UTC

Not really.

It's only a question of offense to defense ratio.


The losses percentage applied to the defenders is offense / (offense + defense). Thus the percentage of losses applied to the offenders is the complementary to 100%.


If the attacker would be able to overwhelm the defender with only champions, he would lose none.

The only problem is to actually achieve lots of offense points with only champions... You would need quite lots of them. :p


I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
lil_uzi94
2 March, 2016, 7:59 PM UTC

ThatBloke said:


Not really.

It's only a question of offense to defense ratio.


The losses percentage applied to the defenders is offense / (offense + defense). Thus the percentage of losses applied to the offenders is the complementary to 100%.


If the attacker would be able to overwhelm the defender with only champions, he would lose none.

The only problem is to actually achieve lots of offense points with only champions... You would need quite lots of them. :p


So lets say I attack with 100million offense. The defender has 2million defense. 

Defender loses = 100/102 = 98% (about 2 million)

Attacker loses = 100% - 98% = 2% (about 2 million)

 

How do we ever overwhelm the enemy? LOL Maybe Plarium needs to revisit battle mechanics if I understand this correctly. Actually, the defender recovers 30% for free which makes this even more nonsensical 

UTC +5:00
ThatBloke
3 March, 2016, 9:31 AM UTC

Yes, you can even consider if the defender is a coiner, he can recover 100% by buying the remaining 70% for half their price...

So you can't really "beat" a coiner. Or only for achivements, or for tournament points...



And yes, your calculation is exact.

The attacker loses less in proportion, but he loses as much as the defender in absolute quantities. And the defender has the 30% free revival bonus.

Even worse : with strong fortifications, let's say he managed to get 10,000 fortifications points, his 2 millions of defense can be achieved with only 1 million actual defense, meaning with 98% of losses, he actually loses only 1 million !


I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
lil_uzi94
3 March, 2016, 11:24 AM UTC
ThatBloke said:

Yes, you can even consider if the defender is a coiner, he can recover 100% by buying the remaining 70% for half their price...

So you can't really "beat" a coiner. Or only for achivements, or for tournament points...



And yes, your calculation is exact.

The attacker loses less in proportion, but he loses as much as the defender in absolute quantities. And the defender has the 30% free revival bonus.

Even worse : with strong fortifications, let's say he managed to get 10,000 fortifications points, his 2 millions of defense can be achieved with only 1 million actual defense, meaning with 98% of losses, he actually loses only 1 million !


I can't even describe how ripped off I feel. Take your example, build for months on end. Lose 60% in one second. Plarium needs to put in more systems which encourage battle. IMO, Coiners wont reduce their spending but everyone gets more. Its a war game makes sense if we can actually do more wars without having to spend "too" much. 
UTC +5:00
ThatBloke
3 March, 2016, 11:48 AM UTC

The problem with defense is you need about 3 times as many troops to gather the same number of defense points than their offense equivalent.


This means when killing 1 million of defense units, you actually kill 3 times as many as the number of units the attacker loses.

Though defense units are cheaper and take less time to train, It can have quite demoralizing effects on the defender already, especially if he's not a coiner and has to rebuild / earn them from Persians from the start.

So allowing for even more damage would probably despair them for good... :p


Maybe the problem is there actually : coiners don't care, non coiners can get desperate... And the balance is hard to find.


Also, the fortifications bonus has to be useful to justify the efforts and drachmas spent there.

Actually, a full coaliton defense garrisonned in a well fortified city is a powerful defense weapon. In this case, the attacker can get fully wiped out with minor losses on the defender side (or actually scattered among multiple defenders).

However, don't forget the attacker is the offender, and as such, is fully responsible for his troops doom...


I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
lil_uzi94
3 March, 2016, 12:13 PM UTC
ThatBloke said:

The problem with defense is you need about 3 times as many troops to gather the same number of defense points than their offense equivalent.


This means when killing 1 million of defense units, you actually kill 3 times as many as the number of units the attacker loses.

Though defense units are cheaper and take less time to train, It can have quite demoralizing effects on the defender already, especially if he's not a coiner and has to rebuild / earn them from Persians from the start.

So allowing for even more damage would probably despair them for good... :p


Maybe the problem is there actually : coiners don't care, non coiners can get desperate... And the balance is hard to find.


Also, the fortifications bonus has to be useful to justify the efforts and drachmas spent there.

Actually, a full coaliton defense garrisonned in a well fortified city is a powerful defense weapon. In this case, the attacker can get fully wiped out with minor losses on the defender side (or actually scattered among multiple defenders).

However, don't forget the attacker is the offender, and as such, is fully responsible for his troops doom...

I agree with you and I think it sounds so balanced but its too simplistic. I think if someone has 100million offense and another person has 2million defense, the one with 100mil should have some sort of advantage (and it makes sense because he put so much time and/or money into it)
UTC +5:00
ThatBloke
3 March, 2016, 12:45 PM UTC

Both sides will probably feel the same... ^^


LOL


I pity the fool
UTC +11:00
lil_uzi94
3 March, 2016, 12:50 PM UTC
ThatBloke said:

Both sides will probably feel the same... ^^


LOL


LOL agreed.
UTC +5:00
BongyKong
4 March, 2016, 10:35 AM UTC

Defense V Attack


Two battles,one without CDB one with! either way the defender gets all the bonus



Defender 50mill v Attacker 100mill

bing bang bosh,battle has finished they both lose 33.3mill,the defender gets back 10mill from Infirm,so the defender with half the army loses 10 mill less than the attacker!


Ok,now the defender has CDB of 96%(use 100% for ease) now the defender has 100mill v the attackers 100mill.

battle finishes and they've both lost 50mill,now the CDB rectifies the defender's losses to 25mill,now take the 7.5 mill from infirm and the defender's losses are now at 17.5 mill.. 


As I have said since the the game admin told all about the CDB,this game is about DEFENDING,only an absolute MUG would attack...the addition of 50% enhancers etc only makes it worse for the attackers...the game needs to balance the losses with the infirmary or an additional building training off site medics so attackers get the same infirmary either at home or away from their city.

UTC +10:00
lil_uzi94
4 March, 2016, 11:29 PM UTC
BongyKong said:

Defense V Attack


Two battles,one without CDB one with! either way the defender gets all the bonus



Defender 50mill v Attacker 100mill

bing bang bosh,battle has finished they both lose 33.3mill,the defender gets back 10mill from Infirm,so the defender with half the army loses 10 mill less than the attacker!


Ok,now the defender has CDB of 96%(use 100% for ease) now the defender has 100mill v the attackers 100mill.

battle finishes and they've both lost 50mill,now the CDB rectifies the defender's losses to 25mill,now take the 7.5 mill from infirm and the defender's losses are now at 17.5 mill.. 


As I have said since the the game admin told all about the CDB,this game is about DEFENDING,only an absolute MUG would attack...the addition of 50% enhancers etc only makes it worse for the attackers...the game needs to balance the losses with the infirmary or an additional building training off site medics so attackers get the same infirmary either at home or away from their city.

BRB I queue defense for the next 5 months :S
UTC +5:00
lefeubleu
7 March, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

ThatBloke said:


Yes, you can even consider if the defender is a coiner, he can recover 100% by buying the remaining 70% for half their price...

So you can't really "beat" a coiner. Or only for achivements, or for tournament points...



And yes, your calculation is exact.

The attacker loses less in proportion, but he loses as much as the defender in absolute quantities. And the defender has the 30% free revival bonus.

Even worse : with strong fortifications, let's say he managed to get 10,000 fortifications points, his 2 millions of defense can be achieved with only 1 million actual defense, meaning with 98% of losses, he actually loses only 1 million !


That doesn't make sense...

Imagine a real fight with 100 people attacking 10 at the same time, the 10 defenders would be able to kill 3 people or so, not 10 
UTC -4:00
AlexandeIIIMKD
7 March, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC
its true, only cash, i lose a lot champs, one bast.... send me 30 political and kill 41 champs, and army a little, so first die champs, i have this case , that happen to me, he die like juv, and cost 2 pvp playing 1 cataract, 
Aleksandar III Makedonski
UTC +1:00
morteeee
Moderator
7 March, 2016, 8:15 PM UTC

AlexandeIIIMKD said:


its true, only cash, i lose a lot champs, one bast.... send me 30 political and kill 41 champs, and army a little, so first die champs, i have this case , that happen to me, he die like juv, and cost 2 pvp playing 1 cataract, 

well seeming as only 10 political attacks can be sent a day you must have left your defence out for 3 days without pulling it back? Why would you do that when someone is raining 10 PA's a day on you? Surely at the worst you would hide your units after the SECOND day? 


Personally I would have hidden them after the second PA, Walls can be rebuilt, with Sappers they can be rebuilt in less than 2 hours for free, units cost res or drach to rebuild, not very smart play
History is written by the victors
UTC +1:00
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