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Yes, Arena is rigged

Yes, Arena is rigged

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Feb 23, 2022, 09:0102/23/22
06/19/21
23

Yes, Arena is rigged

I have found out from Googling many sources that the Arena algorithm is rigged. It is based on your player level and your total power rating, but your player power rating has NO bearing on the best team you can field in Arena or Tag Arena. I am at level 59 with a player power rating of 1.5M, but the highest power team I can put in Arena is only 150K power rating. Yet, I can only beat teams of less than 70K power rating. My fastest team menber has a Speed of 205 and the leader has a aura skill of increasing Speed in Arena battle by 32%, and yet I only get to attack first 1 out of 10 battles. I am at Silver 4 level in classic arena and I have to check every 15 minutes to refresh the list to to see if there is maybe 1 team out of the 10 that I have a chance in hell of beating. I have spent too much money on this game just to be held back by the stupid arena system. It is too out of alignment. And tag arena is no better. Explain how a level 50 24K rare champion can beat a team of legendaries all level 60, 6 purple stars, most with legendary artifacts at level 16 with 5 to 6 stars, and a power rating of 151K? If that is the case then I give up. It is useless to try for legendary champions and artifacts. The game in arena is way too unbalanced. Plus, my player power rating is a complete joke. It is only that high because I have around 100 rares that I keep around for trying different combos in faction wars. I don't have enough legendary and/or epic champions to field complete teams in faction wars. I have been playing for 130 days and spent hundreds of dollars on offers in the shop since this game is "realistically" pay to play. There is no way to get this far without paying. Before you ask I only have levels 10, 11, and 12 campaign missions left on nightmare, I beat the minotaur on level 15, all the potions keeps on 15 or 16, all the boos dungeons up to level 16 except spider's den, and I can make it to floor 50 in doom tower. Since the Hydra is so new I have not figured that out, yet. As for the missions I have only been able to complete the first 2 parts, but cannot get farther because I need to update ratings in the great hall, but can't do that because I would have to spend 18 to 20 hours a day trying to get 10 wins in arena battles. Like I said it is totally and completly unbalanced. 

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Feb 23, 2022, 09:4402/23/22
Feb 23, 2022, 09:44(edited)
02/13/21
505

There's a couple of problems that I would like to focus on, based on what you have mentioned

The first is that if your fastest champion is 205 then unfortunately that is much too slow to compete in the speed race of Arena, even for Silver 4.  Ideally it should be closer to the 300 mark, but I find that 280 is sufficient to win most speed races in Silver 4 when I am knocked back to that stage.  

If your arena goal is to build a speed nuke team, then your fastest champion needs to only have speed gear equipped with double/triple speed rolls, and have a turn meter boost skill to open with (e.g. High Khatun).  No other stats matter for that champion, so it doesn't matter if they have low attack/defense/HP.  Their only goal is to boost the rest of your team above the enemy so that you can nuke

Secondly, you said that the highest dungeons you can complete are 16 except for spider.  This might be one of the things contributing to problem 1 above.  You need to push Dragon at least up to 20 and be running it consistently.  If you are struggling to build a team to do this, then you won't really have a team to complete above Silver 4 in arena, so I would recommend changing your focus to push dungeons

Perhaps you can post your roster and we can help with some recommendations

Feb 23, 2022, 10:2202/23/22
10/15/20
1377

205 is not only much to slow, it's easy to achieve. Everything that is easy to achieve can be done by your opponents in arena as well.

  • let's say a champ has 100 base speed. 3 speed sets give 12% each = 136
  • steel legend mastery with 3 speed sets gives 6 speed = 142
  • boots speed as main stat, 6* and lvl 16 give 45 speed (187)
  • two artifacts with speed substat of 10 including glyphs (207)

That can be achieved without any problems by everybody. Your opponents will run not 2 artifacts with speed substat, but 5 of them. They will hit 250 speed or more.


Like RoseRoyal wrote, your best way to become better in arena is the Dragon dungeon. You need stuff like this:

i


Feb 23, 2022, 12:2902/23/22
05/13/19
2423

Everything  your  saying  is  a  lie  Tony.

Skadi  did  the  mathematical break  down  to  catch  you  in  the  lie.


Stop  living  your  life  in  delusions  and  come  back  to  reality and  improve yourself.

Your  hero  should  be  faster  and  I  don't believe you  for  a  second that  you  can't make  them  faster.

Feb 23, 2022, 22:0802/23/22
12/29/19
33

easy way to fix that is to find out what speeds u need and to do that you need to go on deadwood pvp calculator .

dthorne04Moderator
Feb 23, 2022, 22:1902/23/22
12/30/20
1009
Player J

Everything  your  saying  is  a  lie  Tony.

Skadi  did  the  mathematical break  down  to  catch  you  in  the  lie.


Stop  living  your  life  in  delusions  and  come  back  to  reality and  improve yourself.

Your  hero  should  be  faster  and  I  don't believe you  for  a  second that  you  can't make  them  faster.

So, I understand where you're coming from here - sort of. OP likely has some misconceptions about arena/gearing in general and if they come back could be perhaps guided towards making better decisions gearing, understanding how they can improve, so on and so forth. I think Skadi and rose covered it perfectly, to be honest. 

What is the point of piling on and calling OP a liar? They're already frustrated by the game and maybe those mistakes can be rectified if they're treated like a reasonable human being rather than effectively trolling them. 

A player not understanding how to optimally play the game doesn't make them a liar, it just makes them someone who's struggling through content.  

Feb 24, 2022, 03:1802/24/22
08/18/21
107
dthorne04

So, I understand where you're coming from here - sort of. OP likely has some misconceptions about arena/gearing in general and if they come back could be perhaps guided towards making better decisions gearing, understanding how they can improve, so on and so forth. I think Skadi and rose covered it perfectly, to be honest. 

What is the point of piling on and calling OP a liar? They're already frustrated by the game and maybe those mistakes can be rectified if they're treated like a reasonable human being rather than effectively trolling them. 

A player not understanding how to optimally play the game doesn't make them a liar, it just makes them someone who's struggling through content.  

To  many  people  are  quick  to  hinder  rather  than  help.  Im  at  228  speed  and  packing  a  fairly  solid  team  (about  4  months  in  now )  and  still  fail  in  arena.  I  just  dont  enjoy  it......  sadly.  I  ieep  coming  back  after  the  weekly  reset  facing  a  massive  climb  again.  It  knocks  me  down  two  ranks  almost  each  week.  I  also  lose  more  points  than  i  gain  for  wins  now.  Even  destiny  comp  was  not  that  insane  with  losing  more  points  than  actually  winning !

Feb 25, 2022, 02:0102/25/22
06/19/21
23

What everyone is not understanding is my stance on that they power rating of you team in arena is meaningless. If a team rated at 50K can beat a team rated at 200K then the power rating system is incorrect. You cannot rely on the power rating number as it is not how powerful you team is. 

Also, I have been told speed is the most important factor. So speed should be the most important factor in calculating the power rating rather than speed being the least important factor in the calculation. 

So arena might not be rigged, but the power rating system is unbalanced and the number meaningless/useless for gauging what teams to take on in arena. You really have no idea what teams you should be battling in arena as there is no reliable comparison. It is all a complete guess.

OK, so how do you get a level 60 legendary's speed up to 280+? I have not found any artifact combinations that could get me to 280+. I know boots with speed as the main stat, but I have never received any other gear with speed as the main stat. Having every piece of gear with a main stat of speed is the only way I see getting close to 300 speed.

Also, people have asked for posting pics of my champions and their gear but since I play on mobile, how do people do that? Is there an easy way or not?

Feb 25, 2022, 02:0502/25/22
06/19/21
23

I will try to post my roster

Feb 25, 2022, 02:1702/25/22
05/13/19
2423
tiger19tony72

What everyone is not understanding is my stance on that they power rating of you team in arena is meaningless. If a team rated at 50K can beat a team rated at 200K then the power rating system is incorrect. You cannot rely on the power rating number as it is not how powerful you team is. 

Also, I have been told speed is the most important factor. So speed should be the most important factor in calculating the power rating rather than speed being the least important factor in the calculation. 

So arena might not be rigged, but the power rating system is unbalanced and the number meaningless/useless for gauging what teams to take on in arena. You really have no idea what teams you should be battling in arena as there is no reliable comparison. It is all a complete guess.

OK, so how do you get a level 60 legendary's speed up to 280+? I have not found any artifact combinations that could get me to 280+. I know boots with speed as the main stat, but I have never received any other gear with speed as the main stat. Having every piece of gear with a main stat of speed is the only way I see getting close to 300 speed.

Also, people have asked for posting pics of my champions and their gear but since I play on mobile, how do people do that? Is there an easy way or not?

You  are  correct  on  how  players   get  high  speed  Tony

Observe  the  below  picture:

i

This  is  my  330  SPD  Golden  Reaper  in  6  SPD  gears.

Every  piece  of  gear  has  SPD  substats  as  well  as  SPD  Rolls  which  you  can  see  in  the  below  picture:

i

I  have  also  used  SPD  gylphs  from  Faction  Wars  to  increase  SPD  further.


However,  you  are  wrong  on  multiple points

1st  -  SPD  isn't  always  the  most  important stat.

2nd  -  POWER  rating  is  extremely important.

Feb 25, 2022, 02:4002/25/22
06/19/21
23

Player J - if power rating is important then my 154K team should be able to easily beat a 50K - 60K team, but often (now that I am in Silver 3/4) I only win about 50% of those battles. And forget battling any team of 100K power or more.

I do keep increasing my speed with glyphs as I get them. I am still working on getting 6 star speed boots with speed as main stat.

Feb 25, 2022, 03:3002/25/22
Feb 25, 2022, 03:38(edited)
10/15/20
1377
tiger19tony72

What everyone is not understanding is my stance on that they power rating of you team in arena is meaningless. If a team rated at 50K can beat a team rated at 200K then the power rating system is incorrect. You cannot rely on the power rating number as it is not how powerful you team is. 

Also, I have been told speed is the most important factor. So speed should be the most important factor in calculating the power rating rather than speed being the least important factor in the calculation. 

So arena might not be rigged, but the power rating system is unbalanced and the number meaningless/useless for gauging what teams to take on in arena. You really have no idea what teams you should be battling in arena as there is no reliable comparison. It is all a complete guess.

OK, so how do you get a level 60 legendary's speed up to 280+? I have not found any artifact combinations that could get me to 280+. I know boots with speed as the main stat, but I have never received any other gear with speed as the main stat. Having every piece of gear with a main stat of speed is the only way I see getting close to 300 speed.

Also, people have asked for posting pics of my champions and their gear but since I play on mobile, how do people do that? Is there an easy way or not?

Why do you say we wouldn't understand that power rating is meaningless if everybody (exept Player J) in the thread literally told you exactly this? The power rating does not show you the power of your opponent's team, your observation is correct. What you don't understand is, that you should draw a conclusion from your correct observation: don't pick the teams you are fighting against from their power rating.

Look at the champs they use. Champ with speed aura and turnmeter boost + champ with decrease def + champ with hard hiting AoE attack = dangerous. Power rating doesn't matter, their power rating is probably very low.

Champ with res aura lead + champs with defensive passive skills (Seeker, Vogoth, Duches as example) = dangerous. Their power rating is probably very high.

4 random champs without any synergy = fight them. Power rating doesn't matter.


For experienced players, the power rating in combination with the champs they use can tell you something about their team. As speed has little influence on power rating, and resistance has much influence on it, a team with (for example) Rhazin (lead), Seeker, Vogoth, Magnarr and very high power rating is probably slow and has tons of resistance. But I still wouldn't consider power rating as important. You would know that they have high resitance from the fact that they use Rhazin as teamleader for his aura even if there wouldn't be a power rating stat at all.

harleQuinnModerator
Feb 25, 2022, 05:0702/25/22
02/24/19
2606

Very well said Skadi. 

i


Feb 25, 2022, 22:5902/25/22
Feb 25, 2022, 22:59(edited)
10/11/20
80
tiger19tony72

Player J - if power rating is important then my 154K team should be able to easily beat a 50K - 60K team, but often (now that I am in Silver 3/4) I only win about 50% of those battles. And forget battling any team of 100K power or more.

I do keep increasing my speed with glyphs as I get them. I am still working on getting 6 star speed boots with speed as main stat.

You can get them in Campaign, Palace of Aravia, Stage 6, on Nightmare

Feb 26, 2022, 02:1502/26/22
Feb 26, 2022, 02:16(edited)
05/13/19
2423
tiger19tony72

Player J - if power rating is important then my 154K team should be able to easily beat a 50K - 60K team, but often (now that I am in Silver 3/4) I only win about 50% of those battles. And forget battling any team of 100K power or more.

I do keep increasing my speed with glyphs as I get them. I am still working on getting 6 star speed boots with speed as main stat.

Power  Rating  doesn't tell  you  who  you  can  beat.

Power  Rating  only  indicates your  teams  overall  strength compared to  enemy  team.


For  Example:

Lets  say  you  are  able  to  lift  weights.

Lets  say  you  are  able  to  lift  400  pounds.

Lets  say  your  neighbor can  only  lift  200  pounds.


Lets  say  I  observe your  400  pounds  of  lifting  and  give  you  Power  score  of  100,000

Lets  say  I  observe  your  neighbor 200  pounds  and  give  him  a  Power  score  of  50,000


At  this  point,  You  are  at  100k  and  your  neighbor  is  50k.

What  if  I  was  to  tell  both  of  you  to  fight.

Would  you  win?


It  is  very  unclear who  would  win.

100k  vs.  50k  -  The Power  Score  is  measuring your  Strength.

You  are  stronger vs.  your  opponent,  but  being  stronger doesn't mean  you  will  win.


The  reason  why  is  because other  factors  play  key  roles  in  a  fight.

What  if  your  neighbor has  a  Strategy in  the  fight  which  is  Designed  to  shift  the  fight  away  from  a  Strength's  type  of  battle.

dthorne04Moderator
Feb 26, 2022, 03:2502/26/22
12/30/20
1009
Player J

Power  Rating  doesn't tell  you  who  you  can  beat.

Power  Rating  only  indicates your  teams  overall  strength compared to  enemy  team.


For  Example:

Lets  say  you  are  able  to  lift  weights.

Lets  say  you  are  able  to  lift  400  pounds.

Lets  say  your  neighbor can  only  lift  200  pounds.


Lets  say  I  observe your  400  pounds  of  lifting  and  give  you  Power  score  of  100,000

Lets  say  I  observe  your  neighbor 200  pounds  and  give  him  a  Power  score  of  50,000


At  this  point,  You  are  at  100k  and  your  neighbor  is  50k.

What  if  I  was  to  tell  both  of  you  to  fight.

Would  you  win?


It  is  very  unclear who  would  win.

100k  vs.  50k  -  The Power  Score  is  measuring your  Strength.

You  are  stronger vs.  your  opponent,  but  being  stronger doesn't mean  you  will  win.


The  reason  why  is  because other  factors  play  key  roles  in  a  fight.

What  if  your  neighbor has  a  Strategy in  the  fight  which  is  Designed  to  shift  the  fight  away  from  a  Strength's  type  of  battle.

I will say again like I did earlier in the thread that I think things were covered pretty well, whereas the way you're going about this just obfuscates how to intrepret/treat team power.  

dthorne04Moderator
Feb 26, 2022, 03:3802/26/22
12/30/20
1009
tiger19tony72

What everyone is not understanding is my stance on that they power rating of you team in arena is meaningless. If a team rated at 50K can beat a team rated at 200K then the power rating system is incorrect. You cannot rely on the power rating number as it is not how powerful you team is. 

Also, I have been told speed is the most important factor. So speed should be the most important factor in calculating the power rating rather than speed being the least important factor in the calculation. 

So arena might not be rigged, but the power rating system is unbalanced and the number meaningless/useless for gauging what teams to take on in arena. You really have no idea what teams you should be battling in arena as there is no reliable comparison. It is all a complete guess.

OK, so how do you get a level 60 legendary's speed up to 280+? I have not found any artifact combinations that could get me to 280+. I know boots with speed as the main stat, but I have never received any other gear with speed as the main stat. Having every piece of gear with a main stat of speed is the only way I see getting close to 300 speed.

Also, people have asked for posting pics of my champions and their gear but since I play on mobile, how do people do that? Is there an easy way or not?

So as skadi summed up, focusing on the types of teams you're seeing combined with their team power can give us some decent ideas of what types of stats they're heavier on, which can be helpful as you move through higher levels of arena. While team power isn't exactly linear, we can make some educated guesses based on team compositions we're up against and factor in team power from there. 

Here are some examples from my defense log in Gold 4: 


i

The first team is a blender comp, in which we can be sure speed nuking their opponents is the only goal there. Arbiter boost, into Longbeard ally attack and 2 hard hitting AOE A1s. 

The second team has Duchess/Mountain King which already tells us it's going to be a tanky team and 324k team power tells us we can expect a lot of defensive stats in general, and likely a ton of resistance. 

The third team is a classic double speed boost into Lydia's weaken/defense down and an Ithos AOE nuke. 

Both the first and third team team powers relative to most teams in the Gold IV area reflect what you can expect to see from teams that seek to go first, win immediately, while the second is meant to sustain and in this case, pick off champs one at a time with two Rotos. 

As for posting your roster/gearing, you'll have to take screenshots individually then post them with the picture option at the top of the reply box. 

 

Feb 28, 2022, 06:2302/28/22
Feb 28, 2022, 06:30(edited)
06/19/21
23

OK, but I do have a few other questions then. 

What does the game use to determine what teams to put against you in arena? 

I ask because now that I am in Silver 4 all the teams that put me up against have a power rating of 50K to 150K more powerful than my team. I know everyone is saying the power rating does not really matter but I cannot beat any of the teams that are more powerful than me. I have never beat a team with a higher power rating than my team.

If I have a team of 145K to 154K (depending on changing 1 champion for another) why would the game put me against other teams ranging from 175K to 275K in classic arena? 

I have no way of beating them, so what ends up happening is I lose several battles, end up in Silver 3. Then I get a few easy teams, get back into Silver 4 and start losing again.

What is really pissing me off is that to continue in the missions I have to upgrade 2 great hall bonuses to level 4. If I am stuck only getting 2 silver arena medals per battle (since I lose Silver 4 ranking and end up in Silver 3 ranking), and can only find about 3 to 5 teams throught the day that I can beat (if I am lucky but usally less), then It will take me 140 to 233 days to be able to complete that mission so that I can move forward. That is a complete waste of time and if that is the case I am done with this game - and not going to spend any more money as it will be a waste.

I have spent over 100 gens to find 3 teams I could beat in 1 day - that is a complete waste but I wanted to see what I could find. I have more than enough arena tokens (since most packs I have bought over the last 6 months has included arena tokens - I have 45 token (10 battle) refills, so at least 450 more battles I can do notincluding the daily bonus arena tokens (5 for daily and 10 for advanced quests).

People have asked my team makeup so here is who I use:

Vlad the Nightborn, Wythir the Crowned, Prince Kymar, Ghostborn, Lord Shazar, Helior, Abbess, Aleksandr the Sharpshooter, or Dracomorph. All level 60, all 6 purple stars, all skills maxed, all but the last 3 masteries.

Depending what team I am up against I will switch who is on my offense team. I like to use Lord Shazar as my team leader because his aura skill is increase speed by 32% in arena battles.

I could list their equipment but that will take some time.


Feb 28, 2022, 07:4502/28/22
07/08/19
286
tiger19tony72

OK, but I do have a few other questions then. 

What does the game use to determine what teams to put against you in arena? 

I ask because now that I am in Silver 4 all the teams that put me up against have a power rating of 50K to 150K more powerful than my team. I know everyone is saying the power rating does not really matter but I cannot beat any of the teams that are more powerful than me. I have never beat a team with a higher power rating than my team.

If I have a team of 145K to 154K (depending on changing 1 champion for another) why would the game put me against other teams ranging from 175K to 275K in classic arena? 

I have no way of beating them, so what ends up happening is I lose several battles, end up in Silver 3. Then I get a few easy teams, get back into Silver 4 and start losing again.

What is really pissing me off is that to continue in the missions I have to upgrade 2 great hall bonuses to level 4. If I am stuck only getting 2 silver arena medals per battle (since I lose Silver 4 ranking and end up in Silver 3 ranking), and can only find about 3 to 5 teams throught the day that I can beat (if I am lucky but usally less), then It will take me 140 to 233 days to be able to complete that mission so that I can move forward. That is a complete waste of time and if that is the case I am done with this game - and not going to spend any more money as it will be a waste.

I have spent over 100 gens to find 3 teams I could beat in 1 day - that is a complete waste but I wanted to see what I could find. I have more than enough arena tokens (since most packs I have bought over the last 6 months has included arena tokens - I have 45 token (10 battle) refills, so at least 450 more battles I can do notincluding the daily bonus arena tokens (5 for daily and 10 for advanced quests).

People have asked my team makeup so here is who I use:

Vlad the Nightborn, Wythir the Crowned, Prince Kymar, Ghostborn, Lord Shazar, Helior, Abbess, Aleksandr the Sharpshooter, or Dracomorph. All level 60, all 6 purple stars, all skills maxed, all but the last 3 masteries.

Depending what team I am up against I will switch who is on my offense team. I like to use Lord Shazar as my team leader because his aura skill is increase speed by 32% in arena battles.

I could list their equipment but that will take some time.


the teams you're paired against in arena are based on your current arena score, not your team power. regardless of whether you're running a 100k  team or a 400k team, your opponents will be people who are in or around your tier, with arena scores reletively close to yours (generally within 200 points on either side, although there have been some issues with wider gaps during the implementation of gold V).

as to your specific issue, the champions you listed should be more than enough for success in arena so your issue likely stems from one (or more) of four problems; bad composition, bad gear, bad judgement, or bad luck.

if composition is the issue, you'll be picking the wrong setup for your team; using champions who don't synergize or multiple champions who perform the same role, making one redundant. from what you've listed, i'd suggest using kymar, either ghostborn or dracomorph, and whichever attacker is most effective against your opponent. for the fourth, i would use an additional speed booster. i don't see one on your list, so it's hard to make a recommendation without seeing your full roster.

second potential issue is gear. there are a few ways this could manifest. its possible that the champions are just built badly (emphasis on the wrong substat, bad choice of sets, using trash equipment, etc) or it could be that they're simply not set up for arena. the comp i suggested above for example relies pretty heavily on being faster than your opponents so a lack of speed will kill it and any similar setup. other substats could be similar; you might have enough speed or accuracy to make it in dungeons or doom tower, but it won't hack it in arena. assuming your champions weren't built specifically with arena in mind, you also might be encountering issues with cutting in. most teams want to be set up with the dea that all of your champions will get their turns one after another, but if there's a big enough speed gap between champions your opponents could disrupt the order and break your teams flow.

third problem is bad judgement and i'm hoping this isn't it because there's only so much we can do on the forums to help you with that. it could be that you just aren't great at figuring out which matches are winnable, but that's something that comes with experience more than anything.  if that's your problem i'll see what i can do to help, but let's make sure it's not one of the other issues first.

as for the fourth problem, the only thing i can suggest is go outside and pick through the grass for four-leaf clovers. but while bad luck may be a part of your problem, i'm quite sure that it is merely exacerbating a situation caused by another issue.

Feb 28, 2022, 14:3202/28/22
Feb 28, 2022, 14:32(edited)
10/15/20
1377

1. If the game would use your actual team power for matching, you could get weaker opponents if you remove all gear from your champs. That's obviously nonsense.


2. In your starting post, you wrote that your fastest champ has 205 speed. I allready explained that 205 is much to slow. Player J showed a pic of his 330 speed Golden Reaper to prove my words.

Now, a few days later, you tell us that you spent hours of time and hundreds of gems while refreshing the enemy list to find 3 teams a day you can beat. What you didn't tell us is, if you did anything to improve your team. My conclusion from that silence is, that you did not and your fastest champ is still at 205 speed.

The arena will not change. Either you change the artifacts of your team or you will stay in your actual arena tier.


3. As a quick fix go to your champion page and use the search function to find all artifacts (including used stuff) with speed substats from the speed or divine speed set and put the fastest gear on one champ. If you post your whole champion roster, we could give an advice what champ could be the best choice.

On the long run: do the dragon dungeon! You can find artifacts from the speed set in this dungeon.

Look at the weapon I posted in this thread: 22 speed just from one single item. Look at the weapon Player J's Golden Reaper has: 25 speed.