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Lower Gold Climb, F2P

Lower Gold Climb, F2P

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dthorne04Moderator
Nov 23, 2021, 18:3211/23/21
Nov 23, 2021, 18:34(edited)
12/30/20
5226

"The difference between people that can make it out of Silver/Bronze and those that cannot, is that people who stay in Bronze and Silver is that they haven't put in the work to build a team (Dragon, Fire Knight), just to get the awesome gear you need to compete in the middle and late game. Perhaps they don't want to gear cleanse everything that isn't awesome gear. 

Yes, farming all week for one or two potential pieces requires focus and patience. But if you want to progress in Arena, you have to do what everyone in Arena has done. You have to go back and farm what you need to get there."

This really is kind of it. It's why people absolutely need to prioritize/push hard to get to Dragon 20 ASAP because yes, it does take a good bit of grind to get to the stat thresholds you need to hit. 

296 speed isn't a mythical number. Nor is 100% cr/150%+ cdmg if you're doing a proper grind, even as a F2P. Nor is 250+ accuracy, especially with the great hall. I'm very low spend, at month 11 now and I think I was able to hit those numbers somewhere around month 7-8, if not earlier. There is obviously some RNG involved in getting the proper drops, but the more you put in the dungeon runs the lower your variance will be, of course.

In general I think there's some really bad faith arguments going on, like attacking defensive lineups that would make literally 0 sense for a normal speed booster/def down/nuke/nuke comp. The concepts laid out here by harlequinn are more than valid.

Nov 23, 2021, 19:3411/23/21
01/04/20
1719

It's funny, when I posted my f2p team in the comments of an Arena complaint thread, however many months back, I'm pretty sure I had the same people saying my 98k team power team had godly stats and that's the only reason I was able to climb into gold. 

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 23, 2021, 20:4611/23/21
12/30/20
5226
Harbby

It's funny, when I posted my f2p team in the comments of an Arena complaint thread, however many months back, I'm pretty sure I had the same people saying my 98k team power team had godly stats and that's the only reason I was able to climb into gold. 

Goalposts have a funny way of moving sometimes.

Nov 27, 2021, 23:3011/27/21
08/18/21
165

I  hit  1980  as  my  personal  best  and  lost  thereafter.  Got  bored  of  been  soloed  by  cheap  gold  characters  and  only  go  back  there  to  do  the  daily  stuff.  

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 28, 2021, 05:5511/28/21
02/24/19
7109
DarkByD3sign

I  hit  1980  as  my  personal  best  and  lost  thereafter.  Got  bored  of  been  soloed  by  cheap  gold  characters  and  only  go  back  there  to  do  the  daily  stuff.  

Getting up into Silver the first time is def a TON of work. Was a huge grind for me to work through Bronze 4 into Silver 1. Keep at it, post your teams here, we're here to help!

Nov 28, 2021, 11:2011/28/21
Nov 28, 2021, 11:28(edited)
09/29/16
139
Minin

Ok this is a first for me.

Player J did not come off as his normal JAG self and I agree with him, is the world ending? 😀

Haha, my thoughts exactly 😂

Good discussion, though. Learned a fair bit. Let me just add: most players with one account don't focus, not in the first months. There's a lot of new things and they all take time. A bit of overwhelming. If I write for myself, I focused on Arbiter, not on the speed. Now that I have her, I can focus and I'm willing to do that. So, when you're making the 2nd account you're doing it to focus on speed. If I'd start over now, I'd do a lot things differently.


Nov 28, 2021, 18:4811/28/21
05/13/19
2434
harleQuinn

Player J

If players need less speed than what I showed to make it into Gold, that would be even better, wouldn't you think? They could push into gold at 270, or 280, etc, couldn't they? You can hit 296 speed without spending a dime, sometime after about 6 months, if your focus is to build a Dragon team.

And why would I ever fight a High Resistance, High Shield, go second Tormin style team with my F2P team on my second account? All of us pick and choose what defenses we fight and I have learned not to fight several types of teams unless I have built the counters for them. That is part of the learning process if you want to get good in Arena.

You saw dthorne below me post a team winning in Gold 4. No Serris. Only using three champs.

The  Tag  didn't work.

I  didn't receive a  notification saying  you  responded  to  me.

I  am  only seeing  your reply  now  a  few  days  later.


What  I  want  to  say  is  I  think  your  Original  Post  was  created  with  good  intentions.

It  seems  to  me  -  Your  trying  to  be  helpful  which  is  good.


The  problem is  some  of  the  things  you  say  &  examples  you  give  are  controversial.

You  don't need  a  Dragon  Team  to  reach  Gold  Arena.


A  person  could  farm  Ice  Golem  or  Fire  Knight  to  reach  Gold  Arena.

I  guess  the  best  way  to  explain what  I  mean  is  by  showing pictures.


Here  is  a  Sample  Picture  of  a  Rare  Team  -  Speed  Nuke  Set  up.

i

Hopefully, people  know  what  the  above  team  does.

I  will  not  write  the  Turn  Order  or  explain the  thought process of  why  the  team  is  created.


Instead,  I  will  only  talk  about  the  Gears which  I  would  use  on  the  above  team.

-  Apothecary  ---->  6  Speed

-  SpiritHost ------>  4  Divine  Speed  +  2 Immortal

-  WarMadien ---->  6  Perception  

-  Kael  ----------->  4  Savage  +  2  Cruel


Where  do  we  acquire the  above  gears?

Apothecary  -  6  Speed  Gears  -------> Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Dragon  Farm

Spirithost  -  4  Divine  Speed  Gears  ->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Arena  Rewards

Spirithost  -  2  Immortal  ------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards

Warmadien  -  6  Perception  Gears  -->  Forge  Rewards

Kael  -  4  Savage  Gears  ------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Fire  Knight

Kael  -  2  Cruel  Gears  --------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards

The  above  Gear  recommendations is  what  I  would  use  for  Maximum  Arena  Effectiveness  assuming  I  am  an  End  Game  player  with  access  to  all  Gears.


Lets  assume  a  person  is  F2P  and  can't afford  the  Shop  Offer  Packs.

How  will  they  acquire the  Gear  for  this  team  with  F2P  method?

-  Farming  Dragon

-  Farming  Fire  Knight

-  Doing  Well  in  Arena  for  Arena  Chest  Rewards

-  Doing  Well  in  Faction  Wars  for  Forging  Rewards

-  Doing  Well  in  Clan  Boss  for  Clan  Boss  Rewards.


Now  here  is  a  Plot  Twist:

Lets  assume  we  are  talking  about  a  Beginner.


After  all,  Most  players using  a  full  Rare  team  are  beginners.

Most  Beginners don't  have  access  to  all  gears.

Most  Beginners don't  even  have  some  of  these  locations unlocked.

(For  Example:  You  have  to  be  a  certain  Player  Level  to  Unlock  Faction  Wars)


This  lack  of  access  will  change the  way  they  build  the  team.

They  often  build  the  team  with  the  below  gears:

-  Apothecary  ---->  6  Speed

-  SpiritHost ------>  4  Speed  +  2 Immortal

-  WarMadien ----->  2  Speed  +  4  Accuracy

-  Kael  ----------->  4  Lifesteal +  2  Cruel

Huge  Difference in  how  the  team  is  designed vs.  previous design.

This  Gear  Set  up  is  Good,  but  not  Great!


The  Gear  isn't Maximum Arena  Effectiveness!

There  are  Pro's  &  Con's  which  come  along  with  the  gear  changes.


The  Con's  can  best  be summarized  by  comparing the  differences.

-  SpiritHost is  less  Tanky  becuase she  will  miss  out  on  the  shields  from  the  divine  speed.

-  WarMadien has  less  Accuracy  because she  will  miss  out  on  ACC  set  Bonus.

-  Kael  will  have  reduced  Nuking  Damage  in  Lifesteal vs.  Savage.

(We  know  why  the  beginners will  use  Kael  in  Lifesteal  gear!  It  is  because they  will  use  him  as  Campaign Farmer  in  addition  to  Arena  Nuker!)


The  Pro's  can  best  be  summarized by  showing gear  acquisition.

Where  do  we  acquire the  above  gears?

Apothecary  -  6  Speed  Gears  ------->  Dragon  Farm

Spirithost  -  4  Speed  Gears  --------->  Dragon  Farm

Spirithost  -  2  Immortal  ------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards

Warmadien  -  4  Accuracy Gears  ---->  Dragon  Farm

Warmaiden  -  2  Speed  Gears  ------->  Dragon  Farm

Kael  -  4  Lifesteal Gears  ------------->  Dragon  Farm

Kael  -  2  Cruel  Gears  --------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards


Most  of  the  gear  for  the  above  team  comes  from  a  Single  Location "Dragon".

The  previous set  up  was  more  ideal,  but  it  had  gear  which  was  harder  to  acquire.

The  gear  in  the  current  set  up  is  more  concentrated to  a  Single  Location  "Dragon".


NOW  HERE  COMES  THE  TRICKY  PART  WHICH  CONFUSES  PEOPLE:

If  your  goal  is  to  reach  Gold  Tier  Arena,  Do  you  need  to  Farm  Dragon?

The  answer  to  the  above  question can  be  a  YES  or  it  can  be  a  NO.


AND  HERE  IS  WHY  THE  ANSWER  CAN  BE  EITHER/OR.

Gold  Tier  Arena  is  dominated  by  2  different  Play  Styles.

-  You  have  SPEED  Play  Style

-  You  have  TANK  Play  Style


The  SPEED  Play  Style  is  what  I  showed  with  the  Kael  Rare  team.

If  your  Goal  is  to  reach Gold  with  a  SPEED  Play  Style,  You  have  to  farm  DRAGON!

All  the  Gear  you  need  for  that  team  to  be  successful comes  from  the  Dragon.


Now  here  is  Fruit  for  Thought,  What  if  you  Goal  is  to  Reach  Gold with  TANK  Play  Style.

Where  do  you  Farm  for  TANK  team?

*Hint*  You  don't   Farm  Dragon  for  Tank  Team.


Most  of  the  gear  for  TANK  Team  comes  from  Ice  Golem  or  Fire  Knight.

Here  are  some  examples:

i

This  set  up  is  what  we  would  call  Shield  Hell.

All  4  of  these  heroes will  be  in  Shield  with  Health  Aura.

-  DoomScreech  ---->  4  Shield  +  2  Immortal

-  Seducer  ----------> 4  Shield  +  2  Immortal

-  Coffin  Smasher  -->  4  Shield  +  2  Immortal

-  Witness  ---------->  4  Shield  +  2  Immortal


This  set  up  isn't  used  as  much  due  to  Madam's,  but  you  still  run  across it  some  times.

The  set  up  is slightly  bizarre,  but  highly  effective against certain  teams.

This  set  up  is  High  Shield  +  High  ACC  build.


This  set  up  doesn't use  Resistance.

The  lack  of  Resistance means  this  set  up  Auto  Losses  against  a  Buff  Stripper.


Keep  in  mind,  The  team  I  am  showing  you  is  Rare  Team.

The  Kael  team  I  showed  previously  is  a  Rare  Team.


If  the  2  were  to  Battle,  The  Kael  team  would  struggle.

The  Kael  team  has  no  Buff  Strippers.


Trying  to  Nuke  thru  a  Quad-Stack  Shield  is  like  trying  to  do  the  impossible.

This  set  up  is  Highly  Effective against  Non-Buff  Stripping  teams  or  Non-CC  teams.


Where  do  we  acquire the  gear  for  this  set  up?

- Shield  Gear  ------>  Fire  Knight  Farm

-  Immortal  Gear  -->  Clan  Boss  Reward


To Gear  this  team  a  player  would  concentrate their  efforts  into  farming  Fire  Knight.

The  team  success depends on the  gear  quality  and  the  Fire  Knight  can  provide the quality.


NO  DRAGON  FARMING!

Maybe,  the  Dragon  doesn't  give  you  leggo  drops

Maybe,  the  Dragon  hates  you.


BUT  THE  FIRE  KNIGHT  LOVES  YOU!

It  might  give  you  the  good  stuff.


Here  is  a  Picture of  me  using  my  Quad-Shield  team.

You  can  see  the  game  calibrating  my  Starting  Shield.

The  4  Blue  Shield  Text  Over  my  Mortu  Macaab.

i

You  can  see  the  enemy  team  is  moving before  my  team.

I  took  the  Screenshot exactly  at  the  moment the  Enemy  Arbiter  was  doing  her  Turn.

Mentor  of  Heroes  is  Arbiters  Turn  Meter  Move.


The  Enemy is  using  a  SPEED  Play  Style  team  which  we  would  call  "Blender".

They  are  using  Increase  Atk  Hero  +  Rally  Hero  +  2x  AOE  Heroes.

This  Team  has  No  Buff  Strippers.

This  Team  has  No  Crowd  Control.


This  Team  is  extremely vulnerable to  the  High  Shield  -  High  Accuracy  Set  up

You  can  barely  even  see  my  Green  Health  Bar  behind  the  Quad-Stack  Gray  Shield  Bar.

i

The  Enemy team  has  fully  moved.

You  can  still  see  my  Gray  Shield  Bar  on  3  of  my  heroes.


The  Enemy  can't  win  if  they  can't reach  my  Green Health Bar.

You  can  see  it  clear  as  day.

i

Here  is  my  Zelotah  restoring  my  team  with  a  Shield  incase  you  missed  it.

You  was  probably  getting  worried  about  my  team  shield  disappearing.

i

It  was  a  Gold  4  fight.

I  refreshed  to  find  a Non-Stripper  team  or  Non-CC  team.

I  came  across  the  Blender  set  up  which  is  ideal  for  my  team  comp.  so  I  attacked.

Most players will  do  the  same  thing  depending on  their  set  up.


The  Last  Rare  set  up  I  will  show  is  the  High  Resist  +  High  Shield  set  up.

i

This  set  up  only  uses  1  hero  in  Shield  set.

This  set  up  mostly  aims  for  Resistance to  Counter  Stripper  /  CC  teams.


Notice  the  difference between  to  2  Tank  teams.

High  Shield  (4  Shield  Heroes)  +  High  ACC  

-->  Good  against Raw  Damage because the  damage  get  absorbed  by  the  Shield.

-->  Good  against  Non-Crowd  Control  teams  because the  team  has  low  Resistance.


Teams  which  fit  the  profile:

-  Blender Teams  

-  Double  Nuke  Teams


-->  Bad  against  Buff  Strippers  because  they  remove  the  Quad  Shield making  it  Useless.

-->  Bad  against  Crowd  Control  because they  have  no  way  to  Resist  a  Lock  Out.


Teams  which  fit  the  profile:

-  Madam  or  Prince  Kymar  teams

-  Ma'Shalled  or  Maulie  team


The  reason  I  mention  the  above  information  is  because  it  is  reversed when  talking  about  High  Shield  +  High  Resist  team.


High  Shield  +  High  ACC  team  is  good  vs.  Blenders.

High  Shield  +  High  RESIST  team  is  bad  vs.  Blender.

Do  you  see  how  it  is  the  opposite?


High  Shield  +  High  ACC  team  is  bad  vs.  Crowd  Control.

High  Shield  +  High  RESIST  team  is  good vs.  Crowd  Control.

It  is  all  reversed  and  it  all  makes  sense  when  you  think  about  it.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 28, 2021, 20:4811/28/21
02/24/19
7109

I love your enthusiam and walk through individual scenarios.

Farming Dragon drops Speed and Accuracy sets. Those give you the fastest and easiest ways to reach the speed and accuracy numbers needed to move from Silver to Gold. It is really that simple.

Fire Knight is a considerably more difficult dungeon to farm at a level that makes sense and will drop quality 5 star gear.
 

People posting in this thread mostly just want to move up from Bronze to Silver, and Silver to Gold. It doesn't need to be this complicated. Get your champs fast enough and your nuker strong enough to compete, then play some matches to learn what kind of setups your team is good against, and what kind it isn't.

Also, weren't you the one telling me I shouldn't use a Madame or a 290 speed High Khatun? Well, it seems a Mortu, Zelotah, Vrask Harvest Jack team at 277k team power is right out of reach for the players we're talking about here. Why don't you post some of those rare comps in action for us? Just as an example of who they win against?

Easiest way to progress in arena is to farm speed gear in Dragon, equip a speed nuke team, and get fighting.

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 28, 2021, 21:0811/28/21
12/30/20
5226

A few things, Player J:

1) with your rare team examples, it sure would've been nice to see some matchups, etc. where it worked. 

2) There is zero chance farming Dragon to reach Gold Arena is a controversial stance. Maybe you don't need to grind dragon to reach Gold Arena, but for the vast majority of early game players it's going to be far, far more efficient unless you open shards like a god. Fire Knight and Ice Golem to a degree require specific champions, or perhaps taking champs up that might provide diminishing returns later. 

Dragon provides a much more straight line, sensical path overall that will give us progression in the most efficient manner. 

3) In this hypothesis, are we assuming players are able to farm FK/IG at a high enough level vs. Dragon for it to make sense, because that seems unrealistic at best. The gear these players are getting at FK/IG will likely end up providing diminishing returns again versus whatever they're able to farm from Dragon 17-20, which is a lot easier for early game to early mid game players to get to. 

4) Early game F2P players climbing the ladder are very unlikely to do well in Arena, Faction Wars or Clan Boss (and Fire Knight for that matter) to help improve their gearing. 

Whole concept of your post just seems inefficient overall since the point of harleQuinn's post in the first place was providing examples of how players can build out a speed nuke team and climb to lower gold as a F2P with 3 login champs. 

Nov 28, 2021, 21:2211/28/21
Nov 28, 2021, 21:26(edited)
01/04/20
1719
Player J

The  Tag  didn't work.

I  didn't receive a  notification saying  you  responded  to  me.

I  am  only seeing  your reply  now  a  few  days  later.


What  I  want  to  say  is  I  think  your  Original  Post  was  created  with  good  intentions.

It  seems  to  me  -  Your  trying  to  be  helpful  which  is  good.


The  problem is  some  of  the  things  you  say  &  examples  you  give  are  controversial.

You  don't need  a  Dragon  Team  to  reach  Gold  Arena.


A  person  could  farm  Ice  Golem  or  Fire  Knight  to  reach  Gold  Arena.

I  guess  the  best  way  to  explain what  I  mean  is  by  showing pictures.


Here  is  a  Sample  Picture  of  a  Rare  Team  -  Speed  Nuke  Set  up.

i

Hopefully, people  know  what  the  above  team  does.

I  will  not  write  the  Turn  Order  or  explain the  thought process of  why  the  team  is  created.


Instead,  I  will  only  talk  about  the  Gears which  I  would  use  on  the  above  team.

-  Apothecary  ---->  6  Speed

-  SpiritHost ------>  4  Divine  Speed  +  2 Immortal

-  WarMadien ---->  6  Perception  

-  Kael  ----------->  4  Savage  +  2  Cruel


Where  do  we  acquire the  above  gears?

Apothecary  -  6  Speed  Gears  -------> Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Dragon  Farm

Spirithost  -  4  Divine  Speed  Gears  ->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Arena  Rewards

Spirithost  -  2  Immortal  ------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards

Warmadien  -  6  Perception  Gears  -->  Forge  Rewards

Kael  -  4  Savage  Gears  ------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Fire  Knight

Kael  -  2  Cruel  Gears  --------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards

The  above  Gear  recommendations is  what  I  would  use  for  Maximum  Arena  Effectiveness  assuming  I  am  an  End  Game  player  with  access  to  all  Gears.


Lets  assume  a  person  is  F2P  and  can't afford  the  Shop  Offer  Packs.

How  will  they  acquire the  Gear  for  this  team  with  F2P  method?

-  Farming  Dragon

-  Farming  Fire  Knight

-  Doing  Well  in  Arena  for  Arena  Chest  Rewards

-  Doing  Well  in  Faction  Wars  for  Forging  Rewards

-  Doing  Well  in  Clan  Boss  for  Clan  Boss  Rewards.


Now  here  is  a  Plot  Twist:

Lets  assume  we  are  talking  about  a  Beginner.


After  all,  Most  players using  a  full  Rare  team  are  beginners.

Most  Beginners don't  have  access  to  all  gears.

Most  Beginners don't  even  have  some  of  these  locations unlocked.

(For  Example:  You  have  to  be  a  certain  Player  Level  to  Unlock  Faction  Wars)


This  lack  of  access  will  change the  way  they  build  the  team.

They  often  build  the  team  with  the  below  gears:

-  Apothecary  ---->  6  Speed

-  SpiritHost ------>  4  Speed  +  2 Immortal

-  WarMadien ----->  2  Speed  +  4  Accuracy

-  Kael  ----------->  4  Lifesteal +  2  Cruel

Huge  Difference in  how  the  team  is  designed vs.  previous design.

This  Gear  Set  up  is  Good,  but  not  Great!


The  Gear  isn't Maximum Arena  Effectiveness!

There  are  Pro's  &  Con's  which  come  along  with  the  gear  changes.


The  Con's  can  best  be summarized  by  comparing the  differences.

-  SpiritHost is  less  Tanky  becuase she  will  miss  out  on  the  shields  from  the  divine  speed.

-  WarMadien has  less  Accuracy  because she  will  miss  out  on  ACC  set  Bonus.

-  Kael  will  have  reduced  Nuking  Damage  in  Lifesteal vs.  Savage.

(We  know  why  the  beginners will  use  Kael  in  Lifesteal  gear!  It  is  because they  will  use  him  as  Campaign Farmer  in  addition  to  Arena  Nuker!)


The  Pro's  can  best  be  summarized by  showing gear  acquisition.

Where  do  we  acquire the  above  gears?

Apothecary  -  6  Speed  Gears  ------->  Dragon  Farm

Spirithost  -  4  Speed  Gears  --------->  Dragon  Farm

Spirithost  -  2  Immortal  ------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards

Warmadien  -  4  Accuracy Gears  ---->  Dragon  Farm

Warmaiden  -  2  Speed  Gears  ------->  Dragon  Farm

Kael  -  4  Lifesteal Gears  ------------->  Dragon  Farm

Kael  -  2  Cruel  Gears  --------------->  Shop  Offer  Pack  or  Clan  Boss  Rewards


Most  of  the  gear  for  the  above  team  comes  from  a  Single  Location "Dragon".

The  previous set  up  was  more  ideal,  but  it  had  gear  which  was  harder  to  acquire.

The  gear  in  the  current  set  up  is  more  concentrated to  a  Single  Location  "Dragon".


NOW  HERE  COMES  THE  TRICKY  PART  WHICH  CONFUSES  PEOPLE:

If  your  goal  is  to  reach  Gold  Tier  Arena,  Do  you  need  to  Farm  Dragon?

The  answer  to  the  above  question can  be  a  YES  or  it  can  be  a  NO.


AND  HERE  IS  WHY  THE  ANSWER  CAN  BE  EITHER/OR.

Gold  Tier  Arena  is  dominated  by  2  different  Play  Styles.

-  You  have  SPEED  Play  Style

-  You  have  TANK  Play  Style


The  SPEED  Play  Style  is  what  I  showed  with  the  Kael  Rare  team.

If  your  Goal  is  to  reach Gold  with  a  SPEED  Play  Style,  You  have  to  farm  DRAGON!

All  the  Gear  you  need  for  that  team  to  be  successful comes  from  the  Dragon.


Now  here  is  Fruit  for  Thought,  What  if  you  Goal  is  to  Reach  Gold with  TANK  Play  Style.

Where  do  you  Farm  for  TANK  team?

*Hint*  You  don't   Farm  Dragon  for  Tank  Team.


Most  of  the  gear  for  TANK  Team  comes  from  Ice  Golem  or  Fire  Knight.

Here  are  some  examples:

i

This  set  up  is  what  we  would  call  Shield  Hell.

All  4  of  these  heroes will  be  in  Shield  with  Health  Aura.

-  DoomScreech  ---->  4  Shield  +  2  Immortal

-  Seducer  ----------> 4  Shield  +  2  Immortal

-  Coffin  Smasher  -->  4  Shield  +  2  Immortal

-  Witness  ---------->  4  Shield  +  2  Immortal


This  set  up  isn't  used  as  much  due  to  Madam's,  but  you  still  run  across it  some  times.

The  set  up  is slightly  bizarre,  but  highly  effective against certain  teams.

This  set  up  is  High  Shield  +  High  ACC  build.


This  set  up  doesn't use  Resistance.

The  lack  of  Resistance means  this  set  up  Auto  Losses  against  a  Buff  Stripper.


Keep  in  mind,  The  team  I  am  showing  you  is  Rare  Team.

The  Kael  team  I  showed  previously  is  a  Rare  Team.


If  the  2  were  to  Battle,  The  Kael  team  would  struggle.

The  Kael  team  has  no  Buff  Strippers.


Trying  to  Nuke  thru  a  Quad-Stack  Shield  is  like  trying  to  do  the  impossible.

This  set  up  is  Highly  Effective against  Non-Buff  Stripping  teams  or  Non-CC  teams.


Where  do  we  acquire the  gear  for  this  set  up?

- Shield  Gear  ------>  Fire  Knight  Farm

-  Immortal  Gear  -->  Clan  Boss  Reward


To Gear  this  team  a  player  would  concentrate their  efforts  into  farming  Fire  Knight.

The  team  success depends on the  gear  quality  and  the  Fire  Knight  can  provide the quality.


NO  DRAGON  FARMING!

Maybe,  the  Dragon  doesn't  give  you  leggo  drops

Maybe,  the  Dragon  hates  you.


BUT  THE  FIRE  KNIGHT  LOVES  YOU!

It  might  give  you  the  good  stuff.


Here  is  a  Picture of  me  using  my  Quad-Shield  team.

You  can  see  the  game  calibrating  my  Starting  Shield.

The  4  Blue  Shield  Text  Over  my  Mortu  Macaab.

i

You  can  see  the  enemy  team  is  moving before  my  team.

I  took  the  Screenshot exactly  at  the  moment the  Enemy  Arbiter  was  doing  her  Turn.

Mentor  of  Heroes  is  Arbiters  Turn  Meter  Move.


The  Enemy is  using  a  SPEED  Play  Style  team  which  we  would  call  "Blender".

They  are  using  Increase  Atk  Hero  +  Rally  Hero  +  2x  AOE  Heroes.

This  Team  has  No  Buff  Strippers.

This  Team  has  No  Crowd  Control.


This  Team  is  extremely vulnerable to  the  High  Shield  -  High  Accuracy  Set  up

You  can  barely  even  see  my  Green  Health  Bar  behind  the  Quad-Stack  Gray  Shield  Bar.

i

The  Enemy team  has  fully  moved.

You  can  still  see  my  Gray  Shield  Bar  on  3  of  my  heroes.


The  Enemy  can't  win  if  they  can't reach  my  Green Health Bar.

You  can  see  it  clear  as  day.

i

Here  is  my  Zelotah  restoring  my  team  with  a  Shield  incase  you  missed  it.

You  was  probably  getting  worried  about  my  team  shield  disappearing.

i

It  was  a  Gold  4  fight.

I  refreshed  to  find  a Non-Stripper  team  or  Non-CC  team.

I  came  across  the  Blender  set  up  which  is  ideal  for  my  team  comp.  so  I  attacked.

Most players will  do  the  same  thing  depending on  their  set  up.


The  Last  Rare  set  up  I  will  show  is  the  High  Resist  +  High  Shield  set  up.

i

This  set  up  only  uses  1  hero  in  Shield  set.

This  set  up  mostly  aims  for  Resistance to  Counter  Stripper  /  CC  teams.


Notice  the  difference between  to  2  Tank  teams.

High  Shield  (4  Shield  Heroes)  +  High  ACC  

-->  Good  against Raw  Damage because the  damage  get  absorbed  by  the  Shield.

-->  Good  against  Non-Crowd  Control  teams  because the  team  has  low  Resistance.


Teams  which  fit  the  profile:

-  Blender Teams  

-  Double  Nuke  Teams


-->  Bad  against  Buff  Strippers  because  they  remove  the  Quad  Shield making  it  Useless.

-->  Bad  against  Crowd  Control  because they  have  no  way  to  Resist  a  Lock  Out.


Teams  which  fit  the  profile:

-  Madam  or  Prince  Kymar  teams

-  Ma'Shalled  or  Maulie  team


The  reason  I  mention  the  above  information  is  because  it  is  reversed when  talking  about  High  Shield  +  High  Resist  team.


High  Shield  +  High  ACC  team  is  good  vs.  Blenders.

High  Shield  +  High  RESIST  team  is  bad  vs.  Blender.

Do  you  see  how  it  is  the  opposite?


High  Shield  +  High  ACC  team  is  bad  vs.  Crowd  Control.

High  Shield  +  High  RESIST  team  is  good vs.  Crowd  Control.

It  is  all  reversed  and  it  all  makes  sense  when  you  think  about  it.

 I  think  your  Original  Post  was  created  with  good intentions. It  seems  to  me  -  You're  trying  to  be  helpful  which  is  good. The  problem is  some  of  the  things  you  say  &  examples  you  give  are  controversial. 

You wrote a very long, complicated and overthought process on how players can get to Gold. One thing that you seemed to have missed or forgotten is that 99% of new accounts will not be farming FK or IG at a level that would help them. Dragon is by far the easiest dungeon to progress in, and not only will it help them advance in arena it is the most efficient and crucial dungeon to farm for PVE progression for newer players as well. 

My advice to every new person is to push as high as they can in Dragon so that they can get their speed and lifesteal sets because these will be the key pieces that allow them to advance in 

S Tier: Dragon

1) Faction Wars - which is what they need to get those perception sets you were talking about. 

2) Campaign

3) Arena

4) Ice Golem

5) Fire Knight

6) Spider 

7) Minotaur

8) Force Keep

9) Magic Keep

10) Spirit Keep

11) Arcane Keep

12) Void keep


Why on earth would you write up such a condescending piece of word vomit like this when you know deep down that the advice Quinn gave is the easiest and most efficient way for new and mid game players to advance in every aspect of the game?

Nov 29, 2021, 11:1811/29/21
Nov 29, 2021, 11:19(edited)
10/15/20
2103

Like others said, Dragon is by far the easiest dungeon. I could do Dragon 25 on auto before I could manage FK 20. I guess most players can get 6* speed sets before they have decent shield sets, so I would give the advice to build a speednuking team first, it's the best way to start.

On the other hand, when I was in Silver 4 with a team of Deacon, Apo, Ghostborn, Sinesha, it was quite hard to beat teams like Miscreated Monster in a shield set together with Sinesha + Skullcrown in counterattack sets. It helps, if you understand how other teams as the typical speednukers work, even you don't build them and just fight vs. them with your speedteam. 

I think Player J's post is very helpull to new players when he describes how such teams work. In Bronze most players just put any random heroes in their team, but in Silver and Gold you find opponents that create teams with a certain strategy. You need to know how their teams work before the fight starts, just from seeing wich champs they use and thinking about what strategy they probably try with that champs. It saves a lot of arena points and tickets if you pick only fights you can win as attacker. 

Nov 29, 2021, 11:4611/29/21
Nov 29, 2021, 11:48(edited)
02/14/21
505

As a newer player will be a year come Feb, I find how dismissive everyone is about the arena disturbing 😀.

While Bronze does have some thrown together teams there are alot of set up team and alot of higher ranking teams that I am going to guess are from players who quit, because I have never seen anything posted by Plarium about teams getting cleaned out of the system after being inactive for so long.

I understand alot of peoples fustration with Arena as it is a MUST DO, it is part of dailies and the Great Hall makes the rest of the game easier. If it was not part of Dailies and the Great Hall I WOULD NOT DO IT! and I am in G4 and still think it sucks 😈


I thank all the people who give good advice as listening to you all helped me to get to G4, but the bigger thing that helped was just stupid luck 😁

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 29, 2021, 17:0511/29/21
Nov 29, 2021, 17:25(edited)
02/24/19
7109
Minin

As a newer player will be a year come Feb, I find how dismissive everyone is about the arena disturbing 😀.

While Bronze does have some thrown together teams there are alot of set up team and alot of higher ranking teams that I am going to guess are from players who quit, because I have never seen anything posted by Plarium about teams getting cleaned out of the system after being inactive for so long.

I understand alot of peoples fustration with Arena as it is a MUST DO, it is part of dailies and the Great Hall makes the rest of the game easier. If it was not part of Dailies and the Great Hall I WOULD NOT DO IT! and I am in G4 and still think it sucks 😈


I thank all the people who give good advice as listening to you all helped me to get to G4, but the bigger thing that helped was just stupid luck 😁

Oh, I admit that I was very frustrated myself the first month or so I played, maybe two months. 

Then I learned what teams to skip, and what to hit. Sometimes you'd get a page in Bronze 4 where you would only hit 3 teams, and then come back later to refresh it and try again. Cause my High Khatun, Dhukk, Athel, Rowan team wasn't cutting it against Tormin/Siphi.

But I finally squeeked into Silver 1 and things got a tad better, and I progressed on my Arbiter missions again. :)

I definitely understand the frustration. The point of all of these posts is to show it is possible, and to walk through how I did it, and what I focused on to do it.

Nov 29, 2021, 18:2011/29/21
05/13/19
2434
Harbby

 I  think  your  Original  Post  was  created  with  good intentions. It  seems  to  me  -  You're  trying  to  be  helpful  which  is  good. The  problem is  some  of  the  things  you  say  &  examples  you  give  are  controversial. 

You wrote a very long, complicated and overthought process on how players can get to Gold. One thing that you seemed to have missed or forgotten is that 99% of new accounts will not be farming FK or IG at a level that would help them. Dragon is by far the easiest dungeon to progress in, and not only will it help them advance in arena it is the most efficient and crucial dungeon to farm for PVE progression for newer players as well. 

My advice to every new person is to push as high as they can in Dragon so that they can get their speed and lifesteal sets because these will be the key pieces that allow them to advance in 

S Tier: Dragon

1) Faction Wars - which is what they need to get those perception sets you were talking about. 

2) Campaign

3) Arena

4) Ice Golem

5) Fire Knight

6) Spider 

7) Minotaur

8) Force Keep

9) Magic Keep

10) Spirit Keep

11) Arcane Keep

12) Void keep


Why on earth would you write up such a condescending piece of word vomit like this when you know deep down that the advice Quinn gave is the easiest and most efficient way for new and mid game players to advance in every aspect of the game?

What  makes  you  think  Players  can't  Farm  Fire  Knight  or  Ice  Golem  at  decent  level?

You  only  need  to  reach  Stage  13  to  get  6  star  drops?


You  say  players  push  further  in  Dragon  vs.  the  Other  Dungeon,  but  you  have  seen  as  many  threads  as  I  have  in  the  forums?


How  much  further  do  they  really  push?

From  all  the  threads   I  have  seen,  it  isn't  a  massive  difference.


For  Example:

A  player  might  get  stuck  on

-  Dragon  15  

-  Ice  Golem  13

-  Fire  Knight  13


In  this  scenerio,  the  player  pushed  further  in  Dragon  vs.  other  dungeons.

But  all  the  dungeons  drop  same  gear  4  to  6  star.


The  Stage  15  dungeon  might  have  slightly  better  leggo  percentage vs.  13  dungeon,  but  it  hardly  makes  a  difference because at  the  end  of  the  day  your  still  at  the  mercy  of  RNG.


The  reason  I  mention  this  is  because I  was  once  a  beginner  too.

Harle  Quin  isn't  really  correct.


I  didn't reaching  Gold  with  a  Speed  team.

I  reached  Gold  Arena  with  a  Tank  team.

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 29, 2021, 19:0011/29/21
Nov 29, 2021, 19:01(edited)
12/30/20
5226
Player J

What  makes  you  think  Players  can't  Farm  Fire  Knight  or  Ice  Golem  at  decent  level?

You  only  need  to  reach  Stage  13  to  get  6  star  drops?


You  say  players  push  further  in  Dragon  vs.  the  Other  Dungeon,  but  you  have  seen  as  many  threads  as  I  have  in  the  forums?


How  much  further  do  they  really  push?

From  all  the  threads   I  have  seen,  it  isn't  a  massive  difference.


For  Example:

A  player  might  get  stuck  on

-  Dragon  15  

-  Ice  Golem  13

-  Fire  Knight  13


In  this  scenerio,  the  player  pushed  further  in  Dragon  vs.  other  dungeons.

But  all  the  dungeons  drop  same  gear  4  to  6  star.


The  Stage  15  dungeon  might  have  slightly  better  leggo  percentage vs.  13  dungeon,  but  it  hardly  makes  a  difference because at  the  end  of  the  day  your  still  at  the  mercy  of  RNG.


The  reason  I  mention  this  is  because I  was  once  a  beginner  too.

Harle  Quin  isn't  really  correct.


I  didn't reaching  Gold  with  a  Speed  team.

I  reached  Gold  Arena  with  a  Tank  team.

With regards to Fire Knight, you need more specific champions, whereas Kael (whom early players definitely should be taking as their starter) can carry you through a lot of Dragon, in your free lifesteal gear. 

It seems convenient that in your scenario we're getting stopped at Dragon 15 vs FK/IG 13 when Dragon 16 is void and is a fairly easy threshold for a lot of players to hit before getting there in FK/IG. Drop improve immensely at 16.

Not to mention being subject to RNG would make you want to stack up more opportunities at better chances to improve your gear, not make you less likely to care about doing that. Getting to Dragon 16 will also be more efficient with regards to time spent in the game, given how important Speed/Lifesteal/Accuracy is early and how much faster dungeon runs should be versus IG/FK. Dragon 16 is easier to get to versus the other ones which means more efficient energy usage during tourneys and Dungeon Diver events.

For the vast majority of players this straight line path to a speed team will be a lot simpler than trying to reach gold with a tank team. Also much more likely if we're farming Dragon 16 we can actually end up with some gear that you end up using for awhile, too. 

Everything you're saying just feels very anecdotal rather than being based on math and logic. It seems like the concepts Quinn laid out are sensical and do work.

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 29, 2021, 19:0511/29/21
Nov 29, 2021, 19:06(edited)
12/30/20
5226

Also drop rates: (open image in another tab if too blurry)

i

Even if we're just talking 13 to 15, going from 50 to 56.5% chance of 5* gear and 5% to 7.5% 6* gear is absolutely huge. Obviously it shifts a bit at 16, but you no longer get brews or mystery shards which makes that jump worth it, when combined with the other benefits 16 offers.

Nov 29, 2021, 19:1011/29/21
Nov 29, 2021, 19:11(edited)
01/04/20
1719
Player J

What  makes  you  think  Players  can't  Farm  Fire  Knight  or  Ice  Golem  at  decent  level?

You  only  need  to  reach  Stage  13  to  get  6  star  drops?


You  say  players  push  further  in  Dragon  vs.  the  Other  Dungeon,  but  you  have  seen  as  many  threads  as  I  have  in  the  forums?


How  much  further  do  they  really  push?

From  all  the  threads   I  have  seen,  it  isn't  a  massive  difference.


For  Example:

A  player  might  get  stuck  on

-  Dragon  15  

-  Ice  Golem  13

-  Fire  Knight  13


In  this  scenerio,  the  player  pushed  further  in  Dragon  vs.  other  dungeons.

But  all  the  dungeons  drop  same  gear  4  to  6  star.


The  Stage  15  dungeon  might  have  slightly  better  leggo  percentage vs.  13  dungeon,  but  it  hardly  makes  a  difference because at  the  end  of  the  day  your  still  at  the  mercy  of  RNG.


The  reason  I  mention  this  is  because I  was  once  a  beginner  too.

Harle  Quin  isn't  really  correct.


I  didn't reaching  Gold  with  a  Speed  team.

I  reached  Gold  Arena  with  a  Tank  team.

Your first argument that you tried to make, or rather imply without actually stating, is that you have seen more threads on this topic than I have. Who cares? The dungeon levels you used as an example are anecdotal at best.  And while there is a chance your example numbers could be correct, you are conveniently avoiding both the drop rates AND the average time it takes most newer players to get through those level 13 dungeons. I could bang my head against FK 13 for 10 minutes each run, but take out dragon in 5 minutes. Why would I  farm the harder dungeon? So sure, if new players happen to get a TM control and multihitter sure they can get through FK in a farmable time. But the advice we give is directed towards the vast majority that have cookie cutter f2p champions. Think starter champs and login reward champs only, not whatever shards you or I opened through spending.

YOU made it to gold with a tank team, that doesn't mean it was a quick or efficient way to get there.

Quinn isn't wrong at all, because she bases her recommendations off of the majority of team comps she has seen new/mid accounts use. Whereas you are seemingly only using your personal experience while touting it as fact.

I notice that you showed a screen shot of some f2p friendly tank teams you built without showing any results, whereas with your 277k power tank team you felt comfortable showing results against an extremely weak speed team.

Quinn on the other hand has made several posts and comments about her f2p team that she built using her recommended progression path and has proven it works time and again.

Speaking of her team vs yours, YOU complained that her Serris and Ninja were not f2p friendly or easy to acquire, despite Ninja literally being free for several months and Madame Serris being an event reward a couple weeks ago. But here you are with a Mortu, Zelotah, Vrask and Harvest jack as the only team you feel comfortable showing off? I think you just pulled the rug out from under your feet, you have nothing to back up any of your claims.

Nov 30, 2021, 11:5311/30/21
07/25/21
4

Im always surprising when i see the worse teams in gold 4 than gold 1 and 2. Im at least refreshing 20 30 times in a day and teams usually has Arbiter, Kymar or Lysandra leads. There are even Lydia teams. %20 of teams are 100 Lv accounts etc. Probably we are suffering because of non active players in gold 1 and 2 . Oh and the people who farms low powered players since im losing 50 points in an hour sometimes with 200k+ power teams.

Nov 30, 2021, 12:2811/30/21
05/13/19
2434
Harbby

Your first argument that you tried to make, or rather imply without actually stating, is that you have seen more threads on this topic than I have. Who cares? The dungeon levels you used as an example are anecdotal at best.  And while there is a chance your example numbers could be correct, you are conveniently avoiding both the drop rates AND the average time it takes most newer players to get through those level 13 dungeons. I could bang my head against FK 13 for 10 minutes each run, but take out dragon in 5 minutes. Why would I  farm the harder dungeon? So sure, if new players happen to get a TM control and multihitter sure they can get through FK in a farmable time. But the advice we give is directed towards the vast majority that have cookie cutter f2p champions. Think starter champs and login reward champs only, not whatever shards you or I opened through spending.

YOU made it to gold with a tank team, that doesn't mean it was a quick or efficient way to get there.

Quinn isn't wrong at all, because she bases her recommendations off of the majority of team comps she has seen new/mid accounts use. Whereas you are seemingly only using your personal experience while touting it as fact.

I notice that you showed a screen shot of some f2p friendly tank teams you built without showing any results, whereas with your 277k power tank team you felt comfortable showing results against an extremely weak speed team.

Quinn on the other hand has made several posts and comments about her f2p team that she built using her recommended progression path and has proven it works time and again.

Speaking of her team vs yours, YOU complained that her Serris and Ninja were not f2p friendly or easy to acquire, despite Ninja literally being free for several months and Madame Serris being an event reward a couple weeks ago. But here you are with a Mortu, Zelotah, Vrask and Harvest jack as the only team you feel comfortable showing off? I think you just pulled the rug out from under your feet, you have nothing to back up any of your claims.

I  am  not  avoiding  the  drop  rate.

I  am  just  trying  to  explain how  the  drop  rate  is  misleading  you  in  your  argument.


Here  is  Example:

Lets  say  we  use  Dhorne04  graph.

Lets  say  a  person  is  farming  Ice  Golem  13  &  Dragon  16.


Statistically,  the  player  has  higher  drop  rate  for  epics  &  leggos  from  Dragon  16  vs.  Ice  Golem.

The  question  is  what  does  stats mean  in  real  world  setting?

What  it  means  is  the  player  might  get  only  3  epic  +  3  leggo  gears  from  Ice  Golem.

Yet,  they  might  get  8  epic  +  8  leggo  gears  from  Dragon.


All  the  stats  are  fine  &  good,  but  how  many  of  the  above  gears  are  useable?

What  if  you  get  flat  stats  on  all  your  Dragon  gear?  

What  if  you  get  good  stats  on  all  your  Ice  Golem  gear?


The  game  has  element of  RNG.

Everything  I  am  saying  does  happen.

I'm  not  making  it  up.


In  response to  the  average time,  I'm  not  ignoring it.

I  don't  put  much  stock  on  the  average  time  to  beat  a  dungeon.


A  F2P  player  could  farm  a  dungeon  over  night  with  their  30  free  runs.

The  time  it  takes  to  win  will  be  irrelevant  because they  will  be  sleeping.


In  response to  my  Mortu  Macaab  team,  I  didn't use  the  team  as  Beginners example.

The  reason  I  showed  the  team  is  because  the  "Rare"  team  I  shows  isn't max  level.

I  wanted  to  demonstrate  the  strategy  of  the  team  in  how  it  can  be  useful.


Nov 30, 2021, 14:4811/30/21
12/19/19
5878

Like J, I also used a tanky team to get to G4 originally.  But I would not recommend it, lol.  Those that struggle with arena, have multiple issues (generally self-inflicted lmao) and recommending more complex solutions that are even more difficult to gear just isn't going to work.  Even if building those tanky champs will help long-term progression more.

  1. The speed nuke team is easiest to build and quickest path to G4
  2. The fights are faster, the game is 100x more of a time suck now.  Nobody has time for long arena battles
  3. Farming Dragon 20 should be top priority (and 24/25 when you can).  J is wrong here, and he knows it :) I think the anniversary video he posted, put him on the Olympic podium for Dragon runs (an absurd number if I recall correctly).  My video showed I was dumb, and ran spider (faster and more silver!) but that gave me silver to waste on crappy gear :)