The problem with assumptions is Player J, is they are so easy to make.

You see, you made the assumption I am a new player. Perhaps because I didnt make my Plarium account until August last year.

But I looked it up. Started playing on 25-05-2019. About 2 weeks after the Arbiter got released.

Perhaps not as long as you have been playing, but long enough to know that what your are saying simply isnt true.

Because yes, I did get out of Bronze I with level 40 characters in my team.

Athel at 50, Hordin at 50, Shaman at 40 and Hellgazer at 40... 

Pretty much my 'I've got 3 epics, I'll use 3 epics!' team.

And I am sure they where 40 back then, because they are still 40 today.

Just checked, still in the same gear too. highest item is 4 star +12. 

I really should do something about that. - different story though.

Anyway, that team got me into bronze III or so. 

How big a chance do you think they would stand today?

Im thinking anywhere between 'zero' and 'none whatsoever'.

So.... so much for pointing out I am part of the 'new age player base'.

You sure do seem to remember those days differently then I do.

How was any of that even remotely related to the post you responded to?

You want me to go back in time and make a picture?

That is impossible offcourse, best I can do is this:

i

Its that shaman I talked about. Still in the same gear I left her in as I swapped her out of my arena team. Funny, I just noticed she has some PvP gear on her.

But offcourse this picture does not really prove anything. And I kind of wonder what kind of picture would.

You already made up your mind, and I dont think anything can change it.

You didn't tagg me so I didn't see your reply.

Someone esle liked 1 of my post which caused me to get a notifaction.

I reread this thread and now the truth has been revealed.

You have no evidence to support your case.

The Shaman picture isn't proof.

This lack of evidence exonerates my post.

Lack of proof is not proof of the contrary.

Because lets be honest, you cant prove you needed 4 level 50's, fully ascended either.

Not that it matters. I dont have anything to prove to you. 

I just wanted to let people that come here, wondering if Arena was always this hard, know that it was in fact not and that there are people playing almost as long as you that have quite a different experience. 

Plarium acknowledging the problem with the Bronze and Silver tiers in the Arena, and working on it, is really good enough for me.

Of course, I can prove you need 4 lvl 50 hero's.

The game had 3 Arena Tier when Arbiter mission were released.

- Gold

- Silver

- Bronze

The ideal level's of each tier were very concrete:

Gold - Full 60 Teams

Silver - Mixture of 60 & 50

Bronze - Full 50 Teams

New players starting the game are the most likely to spend money.

They can buy shard which may drop legendary hero's.

Legendary Hero's come 5 star level 1.

This means a player would only need to level them up to be useable in Bronze.

Thus, I rest my case.

And there's your fundamental problem. Everything in Raid is tied up to classic arena!

Great hall and arena rank bonus are essential in making teams for other parts of the game.

I agree that to a degree player needs to get good to maintain their rank and maintain their bonus. But I have already in this conversation 6+ months ago, and the conclusion I have 6 months ago is that arena 6 months ago is harder than arena 1 year ago, and I find myself having the same conclusion that arena today is harder than arena 6 months ago, THAT is another fundamental problem, that Arena keeps getting harder as time goes by. My arena experience is different than people who played the game 1 year ago, and todays players experience in arena is different than mine.

In any good freemium game, any part of their game should have a steady experience for any player at any time they joined the game.

And THANK YOU J for acknowledging my post as the truth, but am I exagerating? With the progression of how people used to complain about gold rank, then to silver rank, and now people complain about bronze, I can savely say, there is a problem in arena, bigger than just "git gud".

Yeah, I don't know if I buy that. 

When I started this game, I couldn't get out of B1 and so I didn't worry about it. I had one team and I used them everywhere and I just focused on the areas where I could progress, campaign and dungeons. 

When I hit a wall in campaign and dungeons, around level 10-13 in all of them, that was when I decided to go into arena and work on my Great Hall.

Now I'm G4 every week without fail. My GH is looking good, I got my Arbiter in about 2 weeks once I decided to try for her.

The point is, purely by accident, I foscused on leveling one team first and getting gear and when I made a push in Arena, it was basically easy.

To give another example. I was totally freaked out about Spider 19. Everything I read or watched basically made me think it was impossible. I got passed it on my first try on auto in about 3 minutes. I was shocked. But it goes back to spending all that time getting leveled, getting gear, and getting an understanding of my characters.

Anyone can do it.

Oooh really? Why don't you replicate that on a new account today?

My point is not wether you can do it or not, my point is that to get to the same place in arena 2 years ago is easier and took less time than 1 year ago, and to get to the same place again 1 year ago is easier and took less time than if you do arena today.

As you said, 6 months ago you can't go through Bronze 1 with your starter team while I can blast through up to bronze 2 with the team that I have for less than a month, with no legendary  and the epic I have is Jizoh! None of them are even lvl 60.

Heck I got through silver 1 without a speed nuke team, my fastest champ was just around 200ish speed!

That's my point! It was easier for me 1 year ago than it was for you 6 months ago, and it's even harder for people who just get started today!

https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/674_game-discussion/200882_my-observation-after-breaking-the-silver-1-progress-mission/

Oooh and if you need proof like J, here was my post when I finally brake Silver 1, turns out none of my champs even broke 200 in speed! All of them were bellow 200...

Where did I say 6 months ago?

You need for me to have done it 6 months ago for your flawed argument to work.

People who do, do. People who fail either make a legitimate effort and fall short, or they are the type of person who immediately looks around for someone to blame. The second type will almost always fail.

And why should i do it again? The problem with your argument is that the goalposts will always move. If I did it today, you'd complain tomorrow that today was easier. Or you'd complain that I now know how to play the game.

You'll never be satisfied.

The worst part is that arena does need work. The problem here is that there is not a single thread on this forum that shows evidence of a problem, they show evidence of players who can't or won't learn how to play the game.

I based the 6 month thing from your forum join date, maybe off about 2-3 months.

And why do ask you to try to redo? Because I've done it 7-8 months ago, made a comment about it somewhere in this forum, to where I got my conclusion that arena is getting harder as time goes by, also since I join the forum, the trend about arena "complaints" are getting lower in the ranks as time pass.

If you read the thread I made, I just want to ask, can anyone go to silver 1 today with that kind of a team? I'm serious... If anyone can replicate that team and get to silver 1 TODAY, I withdrew my complaints and concede, and BTW, that team has only 2 or 3 great hall upgrade and none of them are above rank 3.

As I said, I do agree that to a degree people need to "git gud", but look at the progression mission, people are only playing the normal campaign when they suddenly need to understand team synergy, speed tune, have speed over 250 and all that just because they hit a paywall in the Bronze 3 mission?

Again, look at the progress mission is, it's called PROGRESS mission because it's supposed to be a guide to where the player are in regards to their position in thr learning curve in the game. It's like 

> mission 1 choose which of this vehicle is a bicycle

> mission 2 ride this bicycle with training wheels

> mission 3 qualify for Tour de France

> mission 4 ride your bicycle without training wheels

Do you think anyone would want to learn how to ride bicycle if that's how you train people to ride bicycle? That mission 3 becomes so jarring because the difficulty spike is absurd!

Yes you need to git gud, yes you need to learn about the deep mechanics of the game, but NOT so early in the game! That's why Arena is a mess and that's why after 2 years and tens of millions of downloads only less than 800 k accounts are above lvl 60 and that free bull hero at the 60 days mark is the lowest owned hero, because people stop playing once they hit the paywall that is the arena PROGRESS mission.

You can perpetuate all that "git gud" mantra, but it will only serve to push away new players, because noone enjoys a difficulty spike that you need to overcome to then have the next mission to re do all the basic stuff all over again

II

I get where you're coming from, so let me clarify.

Is arena broken? I think it needs work but for the sake of argument, I'll say yes, it's broken.

Do the threads started on this forum provide evidence that the arena is broken? No. Every thread I have seen only shows evidence of players who don't know how to play the game.

Both things are true at the same time.

Can you get to silver with a team of High Katun, Kael, War Maiden and Spirithost? Yes.

Iamsteamin posted a video where he got to silver 2 on his FTP on day 4. Granted, he pulled a random Jinglehunter and knows how to play, but even if you wait till dy 30 for High Katun, it can be done.

New players today can craft better gear in the forge, something that I didn't have access to when I made my push.

They can replace artifacts for free, something that is new.

Do those things make a difference? Yes.

Is it enough? Probably not.

As far as the paywall goes, I don't have an issue with that. As far as I know, Plarium makes no money off FTP players so their game experience shouldn't be the same as someone willing tospend money.

A casual player doesn't deserve the same game experience as someone willing to put the time in to learn the game and spend months grinding.

I think many of us have created new accounts that hit silver very easily by focussing on a tiny number of champs and arena.

That doesnt negate the experiences others have due to matchmaking.

I get where you're coming from, so let me clarify.

Is arena broken? I think it needs work but for the sake of argument, I'll say yes, it's broken.

Do the threads started on this forum provide evidence that the arena is broken? No. Every thread I have seen only shows evidence of players who don't know how to play the game.

Both things are true at the same time.

Can you get to silver with a team of High Katun, Kael, War Maiden and Spirithost? Yes.

Iamsteamin posted a video where he got to silver 2 on his FTP on day 4. Granted, he pulled a random Jinglehunter and knows how to play, but even if you wait till dy 30 for High Katun, it can be done.

New players today can craft better gear in the forge, something that I didn't have access to when I made my push.

They can replace artifacts for free, something that is new.

Do those things make a difference? Yes.

Is it enough? Probably not.

As far as the paywall goes, I don't have an issue with that. As far as I know, Plarium makes no money off FTP players so their game experience shouldn't be the same as someone willing tospend money.

A casual player doesn't deserve the same game experience as someone willing to put the time in to learn the game and spend months grinding.

I'm not sure I see the point you're trying to make.

Not all negative experiences in this game are the result of match making. 

I see the problem in arena, not in the complaints, but in the solution forumites gives.

1. It's the same 1 type of build that has no counter, speed nuke, Kael, Warmaiden, High Khatun, Spirithost or their upgrade if you're lucky enough to ever pull one

2. Only 1 stat matters, speed! Plarium knows this and has made it scarce to even make an insane price when they ever sell packs of speed sets and/or speed glyphs

3. The speed suggested have incrementally raised as time goes by, that I even see someone suggested that people need 300 speed for their speed lead FOR BRONZE 3! For context, 300 was actually suggested for gold back in my days.

I do agree that people that spend more time should get more than people who plays once in a while.But how do people want to play more when you have to play like end game content when they're just start playing?

The solution veteran forumites gives for every arena complaints are to play like these people are already at end game! Get gears from dungeon 20, get max masteries, upgrade artifacts to lvl 16... All the while these bronze 1-4 are supposed to be for people who still play at normal campaign and dungeon 5-7 (if we look at the progress mission that surrounds them)

Again, you can perpetuate the "git gud" mantra, for me personally that will only serve to drive people away, and hasten the shelf life of Raid... As I said the writing is already there, 2 years and only less than 800k account that are lvl 60+

So yeah... Do what you like, I criticize because I care and I posted solutions about how to make Arena better since months ago, not to make it easier, but there's a fundamental point system flaw that no matchmaking tweak can ever fix