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When the arena-algorithms take you down... ways to fix it?

When the arena-algorithms take you down... ways to fix it?

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Feb 19, 2021, 21:3802/19/21
02/19/21
23

Okay, thank you guys.

I will try it and exchange Elhain for Warmaiden. I will also see if I can optimize the items and then maybe climb up the latter again.

Still, I think I will give Alika a try and see, if she makes an improvement for the Team or not.

Feb 19, 2021, 23:3202/19/21
01/19/21
642

I think we've kinda digressed a bit. Building a better team is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that the arena matchmaking is pretty fundamentally broken if you need to put this much effort into progressing even at the lowest level. Judging by the missions, this is clearly not what was intended.

So there's basically two issues at hand here. One, the matchmaking is clearly not based on any metric that is even remotely sane. Two, people who are clearly considerably stronger than others are either stuck in lower tiers, or actively try to end up there for some reason. So what is needed is to fix the matchmaking, and get people who don't belong there out of the lower tiers.


My proposal then.

1) Get rid of the matchmaking algorithm entirely. Pick a group of random opponent in the same tier each refresh.

Whatever the current matchmaking is based on, it's absurd and does more harm than good. One alternative would be to make it better, but I get the feeling that accurate representation of power it's not something the developers intend to put much effort into. It doesn't get much more effortless than ignoring it entirely. If someone with a late-game team is in B1, fine, let them match against people who just gained access to the arena. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it's really not. Yes, platinum-level teams will crush anyone else in B1, but that's the point. They'll crush them, win an easy 30-40 wins per day, and then they'll suddenly wake up the next day in silver, then gold. Even starting at the bottom, a couple of days later they won't be around to stomp the poor bronze teams.

2) Whenever someone refreshes their arena opponents, all teams randomly selected get a free arena point.

This is to further speed the rank-up process up even if a team isn't very active and moves out of the bottom tiers quickly. Since matchmaking will be random, people far weaker than you may end up matched against you. If you're in a low tier with a team that is clearly overpowered, no one will want to fight you. If no one fights you (and wins), you'll just keep gaining points until you end up in the tier where there are people who will, and will counteract the free points.

3) If the number of fights per refresh for a tier starts dropping, add "bot" teams with teams of appropriate power to the matchmaking pool.

That may not even be necessary depending on how arena participation and teams are looking, but may be a solution in case you end up in a situation where there are simply no appropriate teams to match up against in a tier.


Every single one of these points is trivial to implement. The purpose is to make strong teams bubble up in the rankings until they reach the point where they belong, and let weaker teams fight against weaker teams. If someone is overpowered for a tier, they'll not stay in it for long unless they actively try to. Will there be people who do? Maybe, I don't really understand why they would, but people are strange. I doubt there will be a significant number of them though. 

Feb 20, 2021, 09:3502/20/21
02/19/21
23

Yeah, all in all I totally agree. 

The missions alone show how broken the matchmaking is. As you said, I experienced that the arena missions are the only problems to overcome. They don't fit with the difficulty of the other missions in any way.

There are quite a few other ideas how to improve the system, but in the end there is nothing we can do about it.

I mean, this is not a team game where you get stuck in the lower tiers because your teammates have a bigger influence on the outcome of a game than you, this is just about you and thus even medicore players like me should with enough effort at least be able to climb up the ranks a bit.

Feb 24, 2021, 14:1402/24/21
Feb 24, 2021, 14:16(edited)
11/14/20
43

I'm experiencing the same kind of issues so here is some feedback from a F2P player.  My Apothecary has all the speed gear I can get for him, and his speed is 217.  He's great for my dungeons and minotaur runs.  If I absolutely squeezed his gear to lean all in on speed, I could get him to about 235 or so, is that REALLY worth it?

To give you some arena context from my account...I fluxuate between Bronze III (yeah...seriously) and Silver II, I get maybe one guaranteed win per refresh, and any time I get on a run and get into Silver II the game drops me into Bronze overnight without me even being there.  Even on my Bronze refreshes I get teams with over 200 speed and better gear than mine.  It's completely absurd.  

I have no issues with accuracy, and I typically roll with Spirithost/Apothecary/Madame S/Robar (I sometimes substitute other champs to change strategy after a loss, but my struggle remains).  I have two capable heavy hitters (one is Trunda for god sake) and I understand the necessary mechanics.  My issue is GEAR.  There is no way I can get any other hero (other than Apoth) to even sniff 200 speed so even if my Apoth goes first (and he doesn't always) my nuker gets disrupted.  I don't have pure nuke gear either...so when I get a turn with my nuker I don't wipe the other team very often...I basically have no chance in arena because of speed and gear in general.  No chance.

Now, I could spend, I'm able to, but I refuse to because the game rips you off (for arena especially) so I choose to stay F2P.  I enjoy other parts of the game and that's why I still play.  Arena SUCKS and it's completely BROKEN.

Eventually I will be able to grind my way into better gear, and I'm sure there will be some other issue(s) with arena at that time that I will need to overcome as well...arena is built for whales.  It is what it is.  Palarium could get money out of people like me if it wasn't so ridiculous. 

Feb 24, 2021, 14:2202/24/21
12/19/19
5938
TheDude

I'm experiencing the same kind of issues so here is some feedback from a F2P player.  My Apothecary has all the speed gear I can get for him, and his speed is 217.  He's great for my dungeons and minotaur runs.  If I absolutely squeezed his gear to lean all in on speed, I could get him to about 235 or so, is that REALLY worth it?

To give you some arena context from my account...I fluxuate between Bronze III (yeah...seriously) and Silver II, I get maybe one guaranteed win per refresh, and any time I get on a run and get into Silver II the game drops me into Bronze overnight without me even being there.  Even on my Bronze refreshes I get teams with over 200 speed and better gear than mine.  It's completely absurd.  

I have no issues with accuracy, and I typically roll with Spirithost/Apothecary/Madame S/Robar (I sometimes substitute other champs to change strategy after a loss, but my struggle remains).  I have two capable heavy hitters (one is Trunda for god sake) and I understand the necessary mechanics.  My issue is GEAR.  There is no way I can get any other hero (other than Apoth) to even sniff 200 speed so even if my Apoth goes first (and he doesn't always) my nuker gets disrupted.  I don't have pure nuke gear either...so when I get a turn with my nuker I don't wipe the other team very often...I basically have no chance in arena because of speed and gear in general.  No chance.

Now, I could spend, I'm able to, but I refuse to because the game rips you off (for arena especially) so I choose to stay F2P.  I enjoy other parts of the game and that's why I still play.  Arena SUCKS and it's completely BROKEN.

Eventually I will be able to grind my way into better gear, and I'm sure there will be some other issue(s) with arena at that time that I will need to overcome as well...arena is built for whales.  It is what it is.  Palarium could get money out of people like me if it wasn't so ridiculous. 

what is speed of rest of team, I think:

Spirithost lead (faster than Trunda?)

Apothecary (235 probably will help, 250-260 you will be faster than bots in gold probably)

Serris (accuracy > 200?)

Trunda (6star I assume? )

Feb 24, 2021, 14:3602/24/21
Feb 24, 2021, 14:37(edited)
11/14/20
43
Trips

what is speed of rest of team, I think:

Spirithost lead (faster than Trunda?)

Apothecary (235 probably will help, 250-260 you will be faster than bots in gold probably)

Serris (accuracy > 200?)

Trunda (6star I assume? )

Turn order is Apoth/Serris/Spirit/nuker (I rotate either Trunda or Robar, Robar currently hits harder but is slower).

Serris has 220 accuracy or so.  She doesn't miss.  All my nukers are 60 (Robar/Trunda/Galek) 

Speed is as follows:  Apoth 217/Serris 170/Spirit 168/Trunda 141 or Robar 131.  After reading this part I'm sure you now understand my problem.  Even if I get Apoth to 235-ish, it wouldn't really benefit me unless I can raise the speed of the entire team...which I really can't do.  Plus, Apoth at his 217 speed is geared so he is better in the rest of the game.  

Thoughts?

Feb 24, 2021, 15:0302/24/21
12/19/19
5938

yes, your nuker very slow.  Do you have speed on boots?  What level dungeons do you do?  As you said whatever the math says you need to be to not get cut in on if apo goes 1st is where to start.  Get Trunda to that speed.  Then if you get Apo to 235 make sure you can get Trunda to move up the same as well.  How many months in are you? 

Feb 24, 2021, 15:3102/24/21
Feb 24, 2021, 15:38(edited)
11/14/20
43
Trips

yes, your nuker very slow.  Do you have speed on boots?  What level dungeons do you do?  As you said whatever the math says you need to be to not get cut in on if apo goes 1st is where to start.  Get Trunda to that speed.  Then if you get Apo to 235 make sure you can get Trunda to move up the same as well.  How many months in are you? 

Speed is on all my boots lol.  I can auto lv 15 Dragon and lv 13 Spider, and those are the only ones I ever do.

My problem is I just don't have much speed on my account.  I have very few great pieces of the speed set, and I have a huge problem with horrible substats on my gear.  I almost never get speed substat rolls.  I have almost zero speed on all my accesseries.

It's basically impossible for me to give Trunda any more speed unless I make her hit like a ballet dancer.  I just don't have the gear to do it.  In fact, Robar and his 131 speed actually get me more victories currently than Trunda does, because of affinity and the fact that when Robar actually gets a turn (he typically goes 8th lol) he wipes stuff out, plus his A1 stun is a beast.

I'm working on trying to make Trunda my main nuker but it's going to take time to get the gear.  I have had awesome luck for a F2P account in terms of pulling champs, but my luck in terms of artifacts has been absolutely horrible.

I'm on day 104 and my account power is around 380k.  

Feb 24, 2021, 15:4302/24/21
12/19/19
5938

work on dragon progression, get to 20 and gear will drop eventually. its a slow grind but that is the solution for your arena progression. post your roster and dragon team if u want some tips

Feb 24, 2021, 15:5502/24/21
04/14/20
1348
TheDude

Turn order is Apoth/Serris/Spirit/nuker (I rotate either Trunda or Robar, Robar currently hits harder but is slower).

Serris has 220 accuracy or so.  She doesn't miss.  All my nukers are 60 (Robar/Trunda/Galek) 

Speed is as follows:  Apoth 217/Serris 170/Spirit 168/Trunda 141 or Robar 131.  After reading this part I'm sure you now understand my problem.  Even if I get Apoth to 235-ish, it wouldn't really benefit me unless I can raise the speed of the entire team...which I really can't do.  Plus, Apoth at his 217 speed is geared so he is better in the rest of the game.  

Thoughts?

An alternative is taking High Khatun as lead instead of spirithost, bigger speed aura plus second speed boost, though you lose the increase attack. Or if you happen to have a Seeker or one of the other champs with increase attack and increase turn meter on the same ability, even better, then swap HK and Seeker in for Apo and Spirithost. 

Feb 24, 2021, 16:4702/24/21
11/14/20
43
L9753

An alternative is taking High Khatun as lead instead of spirithost, bigger speed aura plus second speed boost, though you lose the increase attack. Or if you happen to have a Seeker or one of the other champs with increase attack and increase turn meter on the same ability, even better, then swap HK and Seeker in for Apo and Spirithost. 

I tried this before, and I may need to revisit the idea as my champs are a little better geared now.  HK and Apo may squeek me out a few more wins if Robar gets a go more often...he's my only legit nuker right now.  I know Trunda will be better eventually.  I'll try this.

I just got to lv 20 Dragon, but it's a tough go to beat it.  I'm close though!  Getting there.