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Advice for CB Team

Advice for CB Team

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Nov 23, 2020, 04:5511/23/20
09/06/20
18

Advice for CB Team

Hey Raiders! Looking for some tips for how to develop my CB team. By the way, thanks so much to those of you who come on here to give us noobs advice. 

So, trying to get my CB team to the next level. I know I've got some good CB champs, but gear, skills and maybe level\great hall holding me back. Here's my last run from today on Hard CB:


i

I've been running Kael (my famer) in life steal\speed for poison. Lightsworn in resilience\speed gives me def up and revive. Juliana in life steal\speed for HP burn. Serris in speed\accuracy for def down. Draco in best damage gear\accuracy for weaken\def down. I do understand that Serris\Draco are redundant but it's a real challenge to keep def down with just one or the other. Maybe this isn't even a factor I should be concerned about but it tends to increase my damage.

Draco dies pretty quick then team damage drops off. I'm not sure if it's a champs problem or gear problem.

Here's my champs in a position to assist (sort of):


i


i

And the vault queens (didn't include 3*'s):


i


So, what do I do here? Not sure if I need to be moving new champs in, or just grinding for better gear for those I have. I've tried swapping in Steelskull but damage drops (could be gear). Any advice would be much appreciated.


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Nov 23, 2020, 05:3611/23/20
08/18/20
82

Aothar out poisons kael when maxed its bye alot. 

Nov 23, 2020, 05:4311/23/20
08/18/20
82

I run aothar frozen banshee bulwark apoth and elhain for 15 to 17 on hard. So your champ list is way better than mine. I would suggest grinding for the gear. Duel poison plus sensitivity bulwark is defense up plus hp burn and weaken. Apoth for speed and emergancy heal. Elhain for. High crit dph. All in lifesteal n speed. Its probably gearing 

Nov 23, 2020, 05:4411/23/20
11/18/20
58

Draco is amazing for his poisons, not just his weaken def down. I run mine in life steal and accuracy gear. 

I noticed you didn't mention anything about masteries for your champions?

I know it can be a grind but make sure you invest in getting that done, especially tier 6 masteries will help a lot with damage output and the warmaster/ giant slayer mastery will work amazing with lifesteal gear. 

For Draco make sure you the mastery that will extend his debuff durations as well, 4 4-turn poisons is amazing.


Also start upgrading your skullcrusher to use in clan boss. Putting everyone in lifesteal, and then combining it with his counter attack is a great way to keep people alive and really boost your damage output.

Nov 23, 2020, 05:5611/23/20
08/18/20
82

Thumbs up to a averageamerican. Masteries all around! Thats huge diff if there not.

Nov 23, 2020, 06:2511/23/20
05/13/19
2434

Do you have a rare hero named BogWalker?

Do you have a rare hero named Coffin Smasher?



Nov 23, 2020, 07:1711/23/20
09/06/20
18
Dyrvale

Aothar out poisons kael when maxed its bye alot. 

Aothor does appear better for poisons. He's on the slow\squishy side but I'll look at that. Thanks,

Nov 23, 2020, 07:1911/23/20
09/06/20
18
Dyrvale

I run aothar frozen banshee bulwark apoth and elhain for 15 to 17 on hard. So your champ list is way better than mine. I would suggest grinding for the gear. Duel poison plus sensitivity bulwark is defense up plus hp burn and weaken. Apoth for speed and emergancy heal. Elhain for. High crit dph. All in lifesteal n speed. Its probably gearing 

No bulwark or apoth as of yet. Luck of the draw I guess. I suspect gear is main issue. I usually grind gear on dragon 13 (the highest I can go currently). Do you think that's the right spot?

Nov 23, 2020, 07:3111/23/20
09/06/20
18
AverageAmerican

Draco is amazing for his poisons, not just his weaken def down. I run mine in life steal and accuracy gear. 

I noticed you didn't mention anything about masteries for your champions?

I know it can be a grind but make sure you invest in getting that done, especially tier 6 masteries will help a lot with damage output and the warmaster/ giant slayer mastery will work amazing with lifesteal gear. 

For Draco make sure you the mastery that will extend his debuff durations as well, 4 4-turn poisons is amazing.


Also start upgrading your skullcrusher to use in clan boss. Putting everyone in lifesteal, and then combining it with his counter attack is a great way to keep people alive and really boost your damage output.

Draco is maxed for masteries. I used gems, but I think it was the right choice. I'll make him part of my mastery grinding team. I went with warmaster\master hexer. I think master hexer was the mastery you were referring to?

The rest of the team is on lvl 3 masteries. Working on it but as you say it's slow. Is this likely to make a bigger impact than grinding for gear? Guess that's hard for you to say given you don't know what this team exactly is wearing. In general though do you think gear or masteries should be the higher priority?

I was planning on working on Steelskull next but I think after looking into you're probably right that I should prioritize Skullcrusher, and getting Draco and him in lifesteal.

Thanks for the feedback!

Nov 23, 2020, 07:3511/23/20
09/06/20
18
Player J

Do you have a rare hero named BogWalker?

Do you have a rare hero named Coffin Smasher?



No Bogwalker, but I do have a Coffin Smasher in my vault. Do you think I should work on him instead of Skullcrusher? Coffin Smasher would seem to be an upgrade on Juliana but I'm not sure he's better than Skullcrusher...

Nov 23, 2020, 15:1011/23/20
Nov 23, 2020, 15:11(edited)
11/18/20
58

 In general, I would say better gear is more important than masteries, but it's balancing test, you want to have both. Imagine it like this, you're playing a sport and someone asks, "Is it more important to score, or prevent the other team from scoring?" You'll probably win more games by just scoring a bunch, but if you want to be truly effective you need to do both.

Definitely prioritize Skullcrusher over SteelSkull and Coffin Smasher. I would say don't even use Coffin Smasher, keep using Juliana. Her HP Burn does more damage and can be brought to a 100% chance. Plus if you make sure to get her crit rate to 100% she can place a poison debuff as well with her a2.

When using Skullercrusher make sure to keep everyone's Spd in mind. Ideally, you want everyone else to attack first, then have Skullcrusher go last and put up his counter right before the Clan Boss does his first attack. Spd tuning a team can take time, so don't worry if you can't do this right away, but definitely at least try.

Nov 23, 2020, 18:4811/23/20
04/14/20
1357

What J was getting at, and he's right, is that you need to ensure 100 percent uptime of decrease attack on the CB. That's even more important than decrease defense, because it will keep your team alive much longer. As it is, you have both Serris and Lightsworn who can put it, but do they actually manage to keep it on the whole time? Bogwalker and Coffin Smasher have it on their A1, so they are more reliable. They would be replacing Serris probably - as you say, Draco should have the decrease def/weaken covered, once he has enough speed, full masteries and books, and Serris' other skills are pretty useless on CB. 

Then Kael should be dropped sooner or later, preferably to be replaced by a defensive champion. Sandlashed Survivor could work if tanky enough - a def aura is valuable, plus the buff extension and the passive. 

But yeah, as others have said, just having Warmaster/Giantslayer on all champions will add a solid amount of damage - provided you can keep them alive long enough, which is where the def aura, ally protect and guaranteed decrease attack on the boss come in. I don't think Lightsworn is doing enough support by himself in your team. 

Nov 23, 2020, 20:1511/23/20
09/06/20
18
AverageAmerican

 In general, I would say better gear is more important than masteries, but it's balancing test, you want to have both. Imagine it like this, you're playing a sport and someone asks, "Is it more important to score, or prevent the other team from scoring?" You'll probably win more games by just scoring a bunch, but if you want to be truly effective you need to do both.

Definitely prioritize Skullcrusher over SteelSkull and Coffin Smasher. I would say don't even use Coffin Smasher, keep using Juliana. Her HP Burn does more damage and can be brought to a 100% chance. Plus if you make sure to get her crit rate to 100% she can place a poison debuff as well with her a2.

When using Skullercrusher make sure to keep everyone's Spd in mind. Ideally, you want everyone else to attack first, then have Skullcrusher go last and put up his counter right before the Clan Boss does his first attack. Spd tuning a team can take time, so don't worry if you can't do this right away, but definitely at least try.

Ok, I'll try to find the right balance between grinding gear and masteries. Noticed I was able to auto Minotaur 14 yesterday so hopefully that will improve the speed of the grind somewhat.

I've gotten familiar with speed tuning for my arena team so I think I know what needs to be done. Outside of skullcrusher going last, is there any other order considerations I should have? I was thinking Draco should go early for getting debuffs out but I'm not sure that matters as much since it's such a long fight. For reference this teams speed is between 158 and 170, with Serris going first. Is that too slow? I know the boss on hard is 140 speed so the whole team will act first. Should I be focusing more on speed or is that fast enough (for now) and I should focus on defence\accuracy? My debuffers are running about 100 accuracy at the moment, but it doesn't seems to be a problem landing debuffs.

This leads to my next question. Should I be building for auto or should I plan to do some manual to maximize how well the team performs. I'd prefer not to have to run CB manually but I imagine its makes a difference. Thoughts on that? Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks again for the advice! I'm beginning to understand what I need to focus on to improve this team.

Nov 23, 2020, 20:2611/23/20
09/06/20
18
L9753

What J was getting at, and he's right, is that you need to ensure 100 percent uptime of decrease attack on the CB. That's even more important than decrease defense, because it will keep your team alive much longer. As it is, you have both Serris and Lightsworn who can put it, but do they actually manage to keep it on the whole time? Bogwalker and Coffin Smasher have it on their A1, so they are more reliable. They would be replacing Serris probably - as you say, Draco should have the decrease def/weaken covered, once he has enough speed, full masteries and books, and Serris' other skills are pretty useless on CB. 

Then Kael should be dropped sooner or later, preferably to be replaced by a defensive champion. Sandlashed Survivor could work if tanky enough - a def aura is valuable, plus the buff extension and the passive. 

But yeah, as others have said, just having Warmaster/Giantslayer on all champions will add a solid amount of damage - provided you can keep them alive long enough, which is where the def aura, ally protect and guaranteed decrease attack on the boss come in. I don't think Lightsworn is doing enough support by himself in your team. 

Thanks for the explanation.

Generally attack down stays up but not always. The problem is the boss debuff limit and probably the order the debuffs are dropping in. Sometimes there's just no room for another debuff between the strong and weak poisons, decrease def, hp burn and weaken. I'm not sure how to solve that without rotating Kael out, which seems like the most obvious soluton since I think the weak poison is the most sacrificable debuff. I'd probably want to replace him with a better poisoner though wouldn't I? That would just create the problem all over again with attack down competing with even more poisons. The other option is to maybe drop Kael's speed below the other debuffers so if something doesn't stick, it's his poisons.

Nov 23, 2020, 20:3511/23/20
01/07/20
109

frozen banshee will also be a beast for your cb team, id do frozen banshee any day of the weak over kael she is still in my ultra cb team as we speak and carries my team alot damage wise but in saying that i do have skullcrusher and vizier which add counterattack and increase debuffs


masteries fully maxed out will also help jump your damage - once t6 completed easy 2 to 3 mil per champ i found for my team 

Nov 23, 2020, 20:4511/23/20
04/14/20
1357
VHF

Thanks for the explanation.

Generally attack down stays up but not always. The problem is the boss debuff limit and probably the order the debuffs are dropping in. Sometimes there's just no room for another debuff between the strong and weak poisons, decrease def, hp burn and weaken. I'm not sure how to solve that without rotating Kael out, which seems like the most obvious soluton since I think the weak poison is the most sacrificable debuff. I'd probably want to replace him with a better poisoner though wouldn't I? That would just create the problem all over again with attack down competing with even more poisons. The other option is to maybe drop Kael's speed below the other debuffers so if something doesn't stick, it's his poisons.

Exactly, that's why Kael has to go, probably without replacing him by another poisoner. You need just the right amount of poisons - meaning, not so many that they will ever block your decrease attack from being placed. And if it's a crappy weak poison that's blocking the decrease attack, it's even more a waste. Draco plus some secondary poisoner is probably enough poison already, especially if you also need a slot for the hp burn. Juliana works for now, though she's not that great over the long run. 

Nov 23, 2020, 20:5911/23/20
12/19/19
5878

CB Team:

1. Skullcrusher - Take advantage of CA

2. Zelotah (you won't need lifesteal) -- will help dragon/golem progress & no books needed

3. Draco

4. Atk Down (Coffinsmasher will give you 100% uptime with CA)

5. Maus Mage (Block stun  and give you buffs) -- also good for dungeon progress 


Your problem in CB and dungeons is staying alive, the above team keeps Draco alive and allows you to get to UNM clan boss and dragon20 (probably golem20 as well).  Slow runs, but you can replace a support with a damage dealer as your gear improves.



WraithModerator
Nov 23, 2020, 21:0711/23/20
07/26/19
139

Sandlashed as leader

Draco

Steelskull for increase def, cleanse and heals

Skullcrusher for counterattack (1 speed above the cb)


5th champ needs to have a decrease attack on the A1 so you can survive 


Nov 23, 2020, 23:0811/23/20
05/13/19
2434
VHF

No Bogwalker, but I do have a Coffin Smasher in my vault. Do you think I should work on him instead of Skullcrusher? Coffin Smasher would seem to be an upgrade on Juliana but I'm not sure he's better than Skullcrusher...

Coffin Smasher, Juliana, & Skullcrusher all have different functions.

They are not really compareable.


Nov 23, 2020, 23:1711/23/20
Nov 23, 2020, 23:28(edited)
05/13/19
2434

I think your team would be similar to what the Moderator said:

Sandslash - Def Aura Lead

Coffin Smasher ------> Atk Down + HP Burn

Dracomorph ---------> Def Down + Weaken + 4x Poison

Steelskull -------------> 2x Poison + Increase Defense + Single Target Cleanse

Sandslash -------------> Buff Extension + Ally Protection + C.Heals

Skullcrusher ----------> Counter Attack + Ally Protection 


They would all need Lifesteal Gear.

They would all need Tier 6 Masteries.

They would all need 2k - 3k Defense


You are fighting vs. Hard Mode Clan Boss.

2k - 3k Defense should be fine vs. Hard Mode Clan Boss.


When you start fighting against Nightmare Clan Boss, you will need more Defense.

The average hero will need around 4k Defense.


Your team will get slaughtered if they not built right.

The way to do more damage is landing your debuffs & surviving as long as possible.

Nov 24, 2020, 00:3111/24/20
09/06/20
18

Wow, thank you all for your advice. This is a really helpful community!

A few different takes but I'm starting to see the themes are similar between the different suggestions.

A few things I think most everyone's in agreement on:

  1. Everyone in lifesteal.
  2. Reducing damage is a must. Use attack down, defence up, heal and build champs with defence as a major consideration. Hitting power isn't as important as buffs sticking and champs surviving. The CB is ultimately defeated through debuffs not direct damage it seems.
  3. CA and lifesteal provide sustain which should contribute to point 2. Drop Serris for Skullcrusher.  
  4. Kael needs to go. Sub in Sandlashed as leader for her aura, which also contributes to point 2.

After that it gets a little more tricky...

Drop Lightsworn for Steelskull losing a source of attack down and revive, but gaining clease and heal and a little poison to offset the loss of Kael.

Drop Juliana for Coffin Smasher to get back a more reliable attack down and an HP burn, though shorter duration, to offset losing Juliana.

Not sure about Zelotah vs Steelskull since Steelskull provides mutliple sources of healing and poison. I think I'll stick with Steelskull.

Mausoleum Mage is an interesting suggestion since he brings increased def, heals and cleanse and maybe a little speed. The only champ I see him replacing is Steelskull, but I'm not sold that's an improvement so I think I'll stick with Steelskull.

Priorities seem to be:

1. Train champs new champs and rotate them in.

2. Gear (2K minimum def - higher the better). I'm guessing accuracy is an important factor here too.

3. Masteries

Damn, that's a wholesale turnover of my CB team. I've a fair bit of grinding ahead. That said I asked for advice, and you'll haven't dissapointed, so I can't bellyache too much.

Thinking about this realistically, I won't be able to make these changes overnight. Anyone have suggestions for the order I should swap these champs out? Who do I focus on first?