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Problem arena is bigger than just old teams

Problem arena is bigger than just old teams

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Aug 9, 2020, 14:3308/09/20
09/11/19
139

Problem arena is bigger than just old teams

Plarium says it's working on the teams of players who no longer play but are in the bronze and silver leagues.


But that doesn't seem to be the only problem or it happens that a whole lot of players stopped playing in the last few months. I'm still getting pushed down to lower and lower leages, coming from G3, I'm heading for S1. So there seems to be more going on. A few things which might have happened:

- more players are coming in which makes the base much more broad

- a lot of higher players stopped playing (I know a few)

- the prices for G4 has unbalanced the leagues

Whatever it is ... I can't do anything with the artifacts given by Silver, nor am I this way able to finish the missions or build further on the skills in the great hall

I actually don't mind in which leage I am, since when I can't beat the one's above me, then I simply can't. But I do think that the prices, the great hall and the missions should be adjusted when more and more players are running around in the lower leagues

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Aug 9, 2020, 14:5208/09/20
Aug 9, 2020, 14:55(edited)
06/30/20
206

I explained a few times, it is not quitting players (strong players quit everyday since June 2019 but the problem never occur till May 2020). In May 2020, Plarium released a patch that changed Arena. 


Normally arena list will show you/players a list of players in range. The range is based on your power or a way developer calculate how strong you are, before May 2020, it was playable, for example the list show the range [0.7 - 1.3] x your strength.

After May 2020, the list show much harder range, for example: [0.9 - 1.7] x your strength. The developer's original idea is still have enemy with [0.9] x your strength, still have a small hole so players "can breathe". However, "another" coders also add [buffs] for defend team in arena, that closed that small hole and make arena so difficult.


My explanation may be an advance lesson, I do not expect all of you could understand it, but if you could = it's great. 

Aug 9, 2020, 15:0308/09/20
06/30/20
206
Because all enemies based on your strength, no matter where you go from Gold 4 to Silver 1 or even Bronze, enemies around you are similar strength. The maybe difference is Silver is a little bit weaker than Gold (because Gold have more still playing players).
Aug 9, 2020, 16:1408/09/20
Aug 9, 2020, 16:16(edited)
09/11/19
139

Ident20 said:


I explained a few times, it is not quitting players (strong players quit everyday since June 2019 but the problem never occur till May 2020). In May 2020, Plarium released a patch that changed Arena. 


Normally arena list will show you/players a list of players in range. The range is based on your power or a way developer calculate how strong you are, before May 2020, it was playable, for example the list show the range [0.7 - 1.3] x your strength.

After May 2020, the list show much harder range, for example: [0.9 - 1.7] x your strength. The developer's original idea is still have enemy with [0.9] x your strength, still have a small hole so players "can breathe". However, "another" coders also add [buffs] for defend team in arena, that closed that small hole and make arena so difficult.


My explanation may be an advance lesson, I do not expect all of you could understand it, but if you could = it's great. 

Then what would be the reason for that, since it means that nobody is going to move anymore (though I'm still slowly going down)? And why didn't that mean that I would have stayed approximately in the same league, instead of going down so quickly? Is that just buffs/debuffs?


Aug 9, 2020, 16:1908/09/20
12/19/19
5878
Taureck said:

Plarium says it's working on the teams of players who no longer play but are in the bronze and silver leagues.


But that doesn't seem to be the only problem or it happens that a whole lot of players stopped playing in the last few months. I'm still getting pushed down to lower and lower leages, coming from G3, I'm heading for S1. So there seems to be more going on. A few things which might have happened:

- more players are coming in which makes the base much more broad

- a lot of higher players stopped playing (I know a few)

- the prices for G4 has unbalanced the leagues

Whatever it is ... I can't do anything with the artifacts given by Silver, nor am I this way able to finish the missions or build further on the skills in the great hall

I actually don't mind in which leage I am, since when I can't beat the one's above me, then I simply can't. But I do think that the prices, the great hall and the missions should be adjusted when more and more players are running around in the lower leagues

The ponzi scheme has reached a tipping point.  Not enough new low level players while everyone else gets stronger and stronger, the acceleration of these scenarios are very common.  I guarantee whatever "fix" plarium has planned will have very little impact IF ANY.
Aug 9, 2020, 19:4908/09/20
06/30/20
206
Maybe I found out how Plarium calculate my (arena) strength, my strength is too large compare to my arena real strength because I have 400+ champs max level, the game may consider me same as Platinum player. 
Aug 10, 2020, 00:1308/10/20
Aug 10, 2020, 00:27(edited)
09/11/19
139

Trips said:


The ponzi scheme has reached a tipping point.  Not enough new low level players while everyone else gets stronger and stronger, the acceleration of these scenarios are very common.  I guarantee whatever "fix" plarium has planned will have very little impact IF ANY.

then why this is going around. My defense gets beaten, so after the end of a term, I need to grab myself together a  level lower, then work my way up again when possible (since that is not always the case).


What is the 'sound' reasoning behind it. It might have started out with good intentions, but obviously it is not working. Shouldn't that normally lead to some sort of adjustment? But all I hear Plarium talking about is to do something about the teams which players have left. I don't mind to loose from teams who are stronger than I am, but when this is 'created', as in I run into teams with the strength like me or higher, it is a whole different ballgame. And how is that assest? I have a defense team who will show more power points than a very fast team, which is far more lower in powerpoints, but have the speed and the attack to wipe my team of the floor, without the possibility fo my team to get even one shot in

Aug 10, 2020, 00:2808/10/20
Aug 10, 2020, 00:33(edited)
09/11/19
139
This is so frustrating to so many people, I can't believe they don't have a serious approach to this problem, but they are not showing it
Aug 10, 2020, 07:3208/10/20
Aug 10, 2020, 07:56(edited)
07/05/19
748

Based on other similar mobile games I have played and how moderators replied on the matter on previous threads and the stories of other players I read here and other places, I think I can take an educated guess on what happens.

1. Plarium wants arena to be a free for all type of PvP, where anyone can take on anyone regardless of "strength" of teams.

2. Plarium thinks Arena is too easy and tried to make adjustments so as to entice players to cough up more money, and as other games of this model usually do is to match players to fight other players which the algorithm thinks the opponents have "things" that the player would want to have

That is why a lot of people seemed to complain about speed nuke team, while because I build a defense/counter attack team, the high defense team seemed to pop up in my list a lot more.

3. Plarium over did the algorithm, causing players to be matched up with players waaaaaaay beyond their strength way too often, causing major eviction of players from their respective tier to way bellow their tier.

5. Since unlike other games where their PvP have a safety net where players cannot drop bellow checkpoints they have passed, this mass eviction caused high level players to flood tiers bellow them pushing players in that tier to be evicted from their tier and cascaded all the way down to bronze.

6. The flood eventually messed up their intended matchmaking even further, because now low strength players are on the same tier as these high strength evicted players

7. Players are stuck, they can't advance and new players cannot even hope to participate, because there's just too much high level players in Bronze and the algorithm prevent them to be matched with equal strength players.


Well that's my guess. And as I have been suggesting from the beginning I actively post in this forum, Plarium need to add a checkpoint, a point in which players cannot go down tiers further no matter how much they lost, and if they do add such a checkpoint they need to move players, that previously pass that checkpoint and are now bellow it, to be above that checkpoint.

Aug 12, 2020, 03:0408/12/20
04/29/20
14

If Plarium can't just delete Arena from the Missions, then I think I'm done with this game. Played off and on for almost a year, and for the most part I just stick my squishable Satan team: Three level 6 Hellhounds. This is my only possible strategy available to me if I want to get anywhere building my Great Hall. The player base is loaded to the gills with whales who have have 3-4 level 60 Legendaries. Miscreated Monster seems to be on every other team. Me? I have one Legendary and that's it. I don't have MM. I don't even have Bellower. Just really rotten luck I guess. The best I can manage is three 60's -- Warmaiden, Galek, Sandlashed Survivor -- and a 50th level  High Katun for speed. I can reach Bronze IV but I can't get past it and it's because this is the crap you're seeing in Bronze: 



Aug 12, 2020, 06:4808/12/20
Aug 12, 2020, 07:04(edited)
07/05/19
748

killerclone187 said:


That's all BS all of it and hear is why more than have them players don't have have a team if they are with all good players on most then why the hell they dont have a team ? hmmm ill tell ya they either don't play or there bots like on other games cuz not that many people as u think are playing the game so they need to fill the missing spots  lol a good example one guy on my team was banned for what ever reason he made a new account then guess who he seen pvp ??His banned account !!! They turned his banned account into a bot because he had damn good champs !! Now you know the truth about BS in pvp lol and no they will never fix the use that in there advantage so u all waste your time haha

Although I can't disapprove the bot theory, what happens in the story above can be easily explained as "banned but not deleted" the account is now an inactive account that like other inactive accounts have littered the field in Bronze and Silver

Unless your friend see that account in his defense log. Then you have a strong case of being a bot.
Aug 12, 2020, 08:2208/12/20
07/05/19
748

MrChuckles said:


If Plarium can't just delete Arena from the Missions, then I think I'm done with this game. Played off and on for almost a year, and for the most part I just stick my squishable Satan team: Three level 6 Hellhounds. This is my only possible strategy available to me if I want to get anywhere building my Great Hall. The player base is loaded to the gills with whales who have have 3-4 level 60 Legendaries. Miscreated Monster seems to be on every other team. Me? I have one Legendary and that's it. I don't have MM. I don't even have Bellower. Just really rotten luck I guess. The best I can manage is three 60's -- Warmaiden, Galek, Sandlashed Survivor -- and a 50th level  High Katun for speed. I can reach Bronze IV but I can't get past it and it's because this is the crap you're seeing in Bronze: 




wouldn't you at least have Scyl of the Drake if you've been playing for a year? She should've help you to push through Silver. and if you intentionally put squishy defense team so you'd rank down, I would have to say, you sabotage yourself in that scenario.

I honestly do think the matchmaking system in arena is a huge problem, but I do think your strategy is the bigger problem in this story.

I have intentionally drop my account to bronze 1, and I have to say, up to bronze 3, the opponents are still manageable, and I have seen accounts with similar setups as yours peppered through out silver 1, and my team is not even that great, Skullcrusher, Doompriest, Athel and Jizoh.
Aug 13, 2020, 02:1608/13/20
07/05/19
748

killerclone187 said:.

do  know i made over 50 posts about pvp? months and months of post about i will quit lol they don't care if u quit honestly. My advice to u is get good defense champs with high HP then you will start to win in pvp defense !but u wont make it to gold may be silver 3 lol good luck with that :)

I know I wont get to gold with my team, but I have reached and maintained silver 1 with a team everyone says won't even break bronze 3.


I just am enjoying the incremental progression I get in arena, wether it's a new gear that has slightly bigger stats, a mastery that I just add, just the small things.


I am right now stuck at silver 1, I think if arena did not improve their matchmaking, this is the furthest this team can ever hope to reach, I already have a new hero I build to replace one of the line up, I also have build a concept of a defense team that I think can maintain my point defensively.


I also have advocate for a basic changes in arena. Because I think I know what Plarium is trying to do, and to that end Arena itself is not that bad, but their execution is so messy, it makes it almost impossible for people to enjoy arena, with their win feels like meaningless because they're beating lower powered teams, and their losses frustrating because it is such a huge difference in synergy that opponents wipe out teams in one swift turn.

Aug 13, 2020, 17:1508/13/20
01/22/20
193
Never ending story with arena and missions . "working on speed, more speed ect" Funny all players will got from daily champ who decrease speed, than everyone will cry why again. Plarium calculate everything ahaid how to screw players anyway.
Aug 14, 2020, 02:4908/14/20
05/03/20
1743

OzzLee said:


killerclone187 said:.

do  know i made over 50 posts about pvp? months and months of post about i will quit lol they don't care if u quit honestly. My advice to u is get good defense champs with high HP then you will start to win in pvp defense !but u wont make it to gold may be silver 3 lol good luck with that :)

I know I wont get to gold with my team, but I have reached and maintained silver 1 with a team everyone says won't even break bronze 3.


I just am enjoying the incremental progression I get in arena, wether it's a new gear that has slightly bigger stats, a mastery that I just add, just the small things.


I am right now stuck at silver 1, I think if arena did not improve their matchmaking, this is the furthest this team can ever hope to reach, I already have a new hero I build to replace one of the line up, I also have build a concept of a defense team that I think can maintain my point defensively.


I also have advocate for a basic changes in arena. Because I think I know what Plarium is trying to do, and to that end Arena itself is not that bad, but their execution is so messy, it makes it almost impossible for people to enjoy arena, with their win feels like meaningless because they're beating lower powered teams, and their losses frustrating because it is such a huge difference in synergy that opponents wipe out teams in one swift turn.


@Ozzlee,


We are doing the same thing, except I am asking a lot of nice people for advise.  My progress is all in baby steps.  I get a new piece of gear, glyph or artifact.  I level up in the Great Hall and add 1% to one of my stats.  I harvest enough potion to ascend another *.  The only thing that will change this slow "slog" is if I get a great pull from a shard.  Getting a great Lego or Epic will boost me up but it wont be long before I hit a different roadblock.  I got lucky with shards early in the game.  I got APO, HK, Elhain, Athel.  I am stuck in B3/B4 arena and Dragon 14.  I get a few pieces of 6* gear from Dragon 13 but until I can get more on a steady basis, I will be hanging around this level. 


It could be worse.  I am having to actually learn the game from various angles.  I have meet a lot of nice players who help me.  Unlike previous games where mostly I got cussed.  lol  This game is like a checker player moving up to play chess.  Its a real challenge.  Definitely a strategy game. 

Aug 14, 2020, 04:0008/14/20
07/05/19
748

ClosedPoly said:

@Ozzlee,


We are doing the same thing, except I am asking a lot of nice people for advise.  My progress is all in baby steps.  I get a new piece of gear, glyph or artifact.  I level up in the Great Hall and add 1% to one of my stats.  I harvest enough potion to ascend another *.  The only thing that will change this slow "slog" is if I get a great pull from a shard.  Getting a great Lego or Epic will boost me up but it wont be long before I hit a different roadblock.  I got lucky with shards early in the game.  I got APO, HK, Elhain, Athel.  I am stuck in B3/B4 arena and Dragon 14.  I get a few pieces of 6* gear from Dragon 13 but until I can get more on a steady basis, I will be hanging around this level. 


It could be worse.  I am having to actually learn the game from various angles.  I have meet a lot of nice players who help me.  Unlike previous games where mostly I got cussed.  lol  This game is like a checker player moving up to play chess.  Its a real challenge.  Definitely a strategy game. 

The funny thing is, if you track my posts here, I came into the arena begrudgingly... I feel as if I was forced into the part of the game I don't like.


But I honestly after breaking Siover 1, came out sorta liking Arena, I don't know if this is an appropriate comparison, but it's like those super hard souls game when you enjoy the endless loses because at the end of every loses you came out saying " I can do better next time" and you sort of see where you can improve your next battle... There's times when I do feel like throwing my smartphone away, sure, but most of the time I just automatically think, okay I need more [insert a stat]


Maybe I am a masochist in that regard, but I honestly don't hate arena anymore. I still don't love it, but I honestly don't hate it anymore.

There should be improvement in matchmaking for sure, because I do think for the general players, there should be a protected tier, where Plarium "prepares" them before throwing them into the shark tank, the whole Bronze tier should be that protected layer
Aug 14, 2020, 04:3408/14/20
Aug 14, 2020, 17:25(edited)
05/26/20
26

Hello, I generally agree with: OzzLee, plarium should put up barriers like:

as soon as we have obtained a bonus from the silver hall, we can only go down to MAX bronze3

as soon as we have obtained a bonus from the gold hall, we can go down more than in MAX silver 4

platinum same as above, gold 4

Review the time of a 1 month before exiting (arenas) of the teams that have not played, passed the timer to 1 week or even 2 max


If you have 2 silver / gold open bonuses
YOU CANNOT CHANGE RANK
Silver stays in silver
Gold stays in gold

Aug 14, 2020, 04:3508/14/20
05/03/20
1743
A few days ago I won 6 arena offense battles in a row.  3 were against 1 hero teams.  There other were against very weak teams.  I smiled thinking, maybe this the turning point.  Today, I went into broze to find out my defense lost over 100 points last night.  And the first battle I checked out had Arbiter.  You have to win silver and gold to win Arbiter so what is she doing in bronze?  I just shook my head.  I won 8 out of 12 today which is good for me.  But did not get me back to where I was before my defense was destroyed.  I am building 2 more 6* to bolster my defense.  Umbrel and Mountain King.  I hope the gear I patched together can turn them into monsters.  Maybe?   lol
Aug 15, 2020, 03:5908/15/20
07/07/19
1

I’ve played Raid for a over a year, and the recent changes to the arena have had a huge impact. I have two accounts, my main and FTP. Both were in gold 4. My main has been in gold 4 for over 10 months, and my FTP was always barely in it for the last 4 months. 

After the changes, my FTP was attacked down to gold 2 in one day. I could barely manage that, but now it’s gone down to gold 1 and even had a few days in silver, and those teams were all legendary teams. 

I was able to scrape by at gold 4 with my main, but it’s always been hard to keep my head above water. At every reload it’s all speed leads nukers with the an average power of 180k. Per reload, there might be 2 teams I can beat. Used to, I could definitely win 4 and maybe another 3. 

With loses being quiet punitive, even having a win lose ratio of 7-4 means your breaking even. That added the the fact that I’m getting attacked and bested more often. 

This week was the first time that I fell to gold 3 in 8 months and it’s actually harder there cause no one is setting there defense to 4 lv1s. (Before the changes I almost always ran 4lv 1s to keep me from rising too high... not anymore)

The main issue is that the guild hall can only be upgraded through pvp but it is vital to your ability to do PVE too. Making it much harder to develop that makes it much harder to progress in the game. I’ve given up hope of getting enough medals to 10rank a skill for my FTP. 

I don’t want ‘easy wins’ but the guild hall is truly a ‘grind’ that’s critical to the overall experience of the game. If there were a way to get medals from PVE, I’d have no issues with the current setting of the arena, but the only reason for me to play in the arena is the medal grind.

The idea of a checkpoint is good, that way you can attack more freely. 

Since speed is such a huge meta of the area, it should have a higher effect on team power. 

Gold 4 is dominated by teams made out of just a handful of champions. If you don’t have the luck to pull them... 

Honestly, I would like wins from classic arena to go towards the bazar. I’d rather have a PVE arena for medals. That way you could spend your tokens on what you want, items or medals. If there was a PVE arena, it would be bot teams which would let plays use a wider variety of teams. It could be set up pretty easily. 

Bronze uses mainly rare champ teams. 

Silver uses rare to epic champ teams. 

Gold used epic to legendary teams. 

That way even casual players can develop there Hall, competitive player can get more items. 

Of course, now everyone has to use more resources for less gain which is in the financial interests of the company...

Aug 15, 2020, 07:2408/15/20
Aug 15, 2020, 07:25(edited)
06/30/20
206

I am not really afraid of the change in Arena list, legoes or epic champs, whatever they are, I am only afraid of the [hidden buff] make my enemies much much stronger (may base on level gap or total power gap). 


This is explanation about [hidden buff], why it exists, why developer need it:


- All games, all games, do the same when player fight NPC. Player will never fight same level NPC, campaigns/dungeons in this game is a very good example, player have to fight lvl 70, 100, 120, 150, 200 NPCs. 

- Why ? Because players can make their champs much much stronger than original design via gears, skills, strategy, etc. . and AI controls are stupid, it often does wrong moves, wrong strategies. Developer have to increase NPC level to be equal to player's champs for [somehow satisfied battles].

- Arena defend teams are, in facts, NPCs. They are copies of real team, link to player account, but controlled by AI. Human setup but AI control without knowing human setup idea, because of that AI chance to win is low. 

- Normally, if fair fight, player will always win AI if AI has to control a team setup made by that player. It is Player always win NPC if fair fight. 

- Developer has to [buff] arena NPC to make it more equal to players, same as what they did in Campaign/Dungeon.  

- This patch May/2020, developer may [buff] too much, make Arena NPC become too strong, especially speed buff. 

Aug 15, 2020, 13:4508/15/20
06/22/19
800
My arena win/loss of my attacks this week, the last time I checked, is around 85 wins and 10 losses. My usual loss is only around 5 loss per week with 100+ wins. Yeah definite something has change a lot in arena, buffing enemy defenses. 
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