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Ultimate Deathknight and new players

Ultimate Deathknight and new players

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Nov 25, 2022, 17:5211/25/22
04/06/22
143
Angwil

LOL people say they should limit bronze to only rare champs and they can't even get to silver using epics and a legendary?  Maybe they should have a tin tier were toucan only use rares but couldn't advance so people could play and learn. 

Good idea, that is called "scaling to level", a common practice in PVP.

Nov 25, 2022, 19:2711/25/22
10/15/20
2103
OccamsRazor

First of all, Balltazer, I myself would love to see ANY successful Arena team that does not use it.

Second, Skadi, UDK is only part of the problem. I can indeed beat him, but I had to make a special team to do so. there are just too many ways to use UDK as a lock. 

"Avoid teams with UDK"?? Seriously?? I'd say 99% of serious teams have it. I'd avoid the arena entirely if it wasn't required for multiple dailies. THAT is how broken it has become. 

"I posted different ways to beat him so often allready in the various threads, I'm to tired to repeat them again."

Well, maybe if you are tired of trying to convince everyone, the problem is with UDK, not your attempts to convince us.

"If you want to do neither and just try to run with the head through the wall, you will end up in a 1500 turns fight vs. UDK and complain about how unbeatable he his." 

There, you see the problem? You say that as if it happens all the time in PVP games. IT DOESN'T. See, I have seen this before, on several app games and quite a few other online games. Players who build these locks do so to troll other players, the design not being to defeat the enemy team, but make them angry and convince them to hit the Quit option. Their "strategy" being simple: NEVER give the opponent a chance by making your team invincible. The opponent gets angry, you give up, THAT is their goal. And even worse, unlike most trolls, they don't even have to be online to do it! The fact that you have to surrender to the AI program is maddening, I mean, who did all the work here??

This is not a new phenominon, you know. Google "No Oddjob Rule" and you'll see what I mean. 

When I started Raid, players "trolled" others with a single Miscreated Monster, using the same strategy of more healing than the other team could deal damage as UDK today. That allways was part of the game.

If UDK is the meta in lower arena tiers now, get destroy gear to counter that meta. UDK is definetly far away from being unbeatable, I see him rarely in Gold 5. If the champion itself would be the game breaking god-tier beast in arena, players who proofed their knowledge of the game by reaching Gold 5 would use him more often.


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Exactly 2 teams with UDK. One has Lydia, Siphi and Candraphon, who could be paired with anybody and be a strong team. The other team, with UDK as leader, looks like easy prey - and indeed is.


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Speed meta may be dead in Platinum, where krakens eat whales, but for every no or low spender (like me) I would still recommend speed. You will allways find enough go second teams like this. 


harleQuinnModerator
Nov 25, 2022, 19:4311/25/22
Nov 25, 2022, 19:44(edited)
02/24/19
7109
Angwil

LOL people say they should limit bronze to only rare champs and they can't even get to silver using epics and a legendary?  Maybe they should have a tin tier were toucan only use rares but couldn't advance so people could play and learn. 

Sounds like it could be a good way to get your five arena matches out of the way and done against only Rares and Uncommons... 

Except are you sure you're ready for endless posts from the same 3 or so people here about how their 178 speed Diabolost can't beat anything in the Tin Tier? Or how everyone's Executioners totally lock down their team and they can't win? Or how Templar provoke is aboslutely dominant and there needs to be an Uncommon-only Tier?

Nov 25, 2022, 19:5611/25/22
11/04/22
44
Skadi

When I started Raid, players "trolled" others with a single Miscreated Monster, using the same strategy of more healing than the other team could deal damage as UDK today. That allways was part of the game.

If UDK is the meta in lower arena tiers now, get destroy gear to counter that meta. UDK is definetly far away from being unbeatable, I see him rarely in Gold 5. If the champion itself would be the game breaking god-tier beast in arena, players who proofed their knowledge of the game by reaching Gold 5 would use him more often.


i


i

Exactly 2 teams with UDK. One has Lydia, Siphi and Candraphon, who could be paired with anybody and be a strong team. The other team, with UDK as leader, looks like easy prey - and indeed is.


i


Speed meta may be dead in Platinum, where krakens eat whales, but for every no or low spender (like me) I would still recommend speed. You will allways find enough go second teams like this. 


Destroy gear is probably the best advice I've seen against UDK specifically. I'm getting a lot of it right now since I'm farming for Warmaiden copies for skill upgrading.

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 25, 2022, 20:2811/25/22
Nov 25, 2022, 20:29(edited)
12/30/20
5223
OccamsRazor

Good idea, that is called "scaling to level", a common practice in PVP.

Not only is this much more prevalent of a concept in a PvE environment in RPGs, but this would be a hideous change to Arena. 

Creating a parity heavy environment and finding ways to devalue the champions players own by limiting their choices is a really great way to make people never want to open shards or play this game. Limiting our decision making skills via narrowing our roster choices is simply not the way to approach this.   

Touching on your issue about stall heavy or "troll" defenses: you already get to make the bulk of the decisions as the player on offense, from setting your AI in specific ways to bringing whatever champions you'd like to use against a defense that is locked into both champions and AI. 

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 25, 2022, 20:3011/25/22
Nov 25, 2022, 20:30(edited)
02/24/19
7109

Glad you're finding your way through the UDK menace with Gear, @AtotehZ . The destroy set is such a nice way to handle him even if you're short some of the classic counters to Sustain Champs (like UDK/Wythir/MM/etc...). While it may take a bit, it can be a nice way to handle him until your nukers are strong enough to just take him out in one go. :)


My way to deal with him on my real account is just to lay damage into him with Mortu or Magnarr until he is way way dead. :D Had to dig around in some random screenshots to find some, he's not very common in G2-G3 Tag or high level arena, as you can just outdamage him here.

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Nov 25, 2022, 20:3411/25/22
11/04/22
44

@harleQuinn The opponent being stronger happens. It's when an UDK is left alone at the end to whittle down your team over 10-20 rounds that's annoying. That really can't happen if you have a destroy set on one champion, and then use that when facing UDK.

Nov 25, 2022, 22:0411/25/22
Nov 25, 2022, 22:05(edited)
06/20/19
2184

Believe it or not sometimes use Rotos and target udk first.   I like using Gaius as well, I see udk in stone skin frequently and the bombs eat right through.   Udk'd passive for dead Allie's doesn't usually kick in.

Nov 26, 2022, 00:3011/26/22
04/06/22
143

"Touching on your issue about stall heavy or "troll" defenses: you already get to make the bulk of the decisions as the player on offense, from setting your AI in specific ways to bringing whatever champions you'd like to use against a defense that is locked into both champions and AI. "


Okay, simple question: has this sort of thing EVER been a problem with ANY other Champion?

Nov 26, 2022, 00:4711/26/22
06/20/19
2184
harleQuinn

Sounds like it could be a good way to get your five arena matches out of the way and done against only Rares and Uncommons... 

Except are you sure you're ready for endless posts from the same 3 or so people here about how their 178 speed Diabolost can't beat anything in the Tin Tier? Or how everyone's Executioners totally lock down their team and they can't win? Or how Templar provoke is aboslutely dominant and there needs to be an Uncommon-only Tier?

Maybe we should call it 'Tin Tears?'

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 26, 2022, 00:4811/26/22
12/30/20
5223
OccamsRazor

"Touching on your issue about stall heavy or "troll" defenses: you already get to make the bulk of the decisions as the player on offense, from setting your AI in specific ways to bringing whatever champions you'd like to use against a defense that is locked into both champions and AI. "


Okay, simple question: has this sort of thing EVER been a problem with ANY other Champion?

Well, there's Swift Parry single defenses, Stoneskin Hephraak with three other level 1s, Mortu shenanigans, people who can't deal with a simple RES check vs. a Paragon, and those are just off the top of my head.

Now, if you mean perceived problems that are wildly blown out of proportion, perhaps no.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 26, 2022, 01:2411/26/22
Nov 26, 2022, 01:30(edited)
02/24/19
7109
dthorne04

Well, there's Swift Parry single defenses, Stoneskin Hephraak with three other level 1s, Mortu shenanigans, people who can't deal with a simple RES check vs. a Paragon, and those are just off the top of my head.

Now, if you mean perceived problems that are wildly blown out of proportion, perhaps no.

Resistance checks against Paragon isn't the only thing I've seen endless rage over. 

Howabout the endless pages of Rotos taking millions of extra turns after his fusion? Howabout the endless pages of Tormins freezing the world after his fusion? Miscreated Monster cheese everywhere after he came out? Lots and lots of complaints about that, about how it was impossible to compete with Tormin... then with Rotos if you only had a nonwhale team.

Or the endless "You need Arbiter and 300 speed to make Gold to get Arbiter" complaints that existed in old arena. The sheer amount of threads, DMs, and complaints on that...so many hours of trying to tell people about team building. About how it was possible to break through all those leggos and all that speed.

Remember the thread I made where I started a new account and farmed up to Gold with new champs, rather than my much more developed older F2P account with a decent amount of fusion leggos? Remember how much hate and prevaricating it got? "Well, you can't use X to prove you can do it, it doesn't matter she was a guaranteed champ." or "You can't use Y, it doesn't matter she's a login champ, she's an epic and you should only use rares." or "You know too much, so you being able to do it doesn't count."

Basically, my reply to "Has this sort of thing EVER been a problem..." is Yes, there is always rage when a login champ or Fusion champ is everywhere for a bit and dominates arena. And when people aren't upset about such a champ, they are upset about speeds, or gear, or feeling like others are winning cause they are spending.

dthorne04Moderator
Nov 26, 2022, 01:5411/26/22
12/30/20
5223
harleQuinn

Resistance checks against Paragon isn't the only thing I've seen endless rage over. 

Howabout the endless pages of Rotos taking millions of extra turns after his fusion? Howabout the endless pages of Tormins freezing the world after his fusion? Miscreated Monster cheese everywhere after he came out? Lots and lots of complaints about that, about how it was impossible to compete with Tormin... then with Rotos if you only had a nonwhale team.

Or the endless "You need Arbiter and 300 speed to make Gold to get Arbiter" complaints that existed in old arena. The sheer amount of threads, DMs, and complaints on that...so many hours of trying to tell people about team building. About how it was possible to break through all those leggos and all that speed.

Remember the thread I made where I started a new account and farmed up to Gold with new champs, rather than my much more developed older F2P account with a decent amount of fusion leggos? Remember how much hate and prevaricating it got? "Well, you can't use X to prove you can do it, it doesn't matter she was a guaranteed champ." or "You can't use Y, it doesn't matter she's a login champ, she's an epic and you should only use rares." or "You know too much, so you being able to do it doesn't count."

Basically, my reply to "Has this sort of thing EVER been a problem..." is Yes, there is always rage when a login champ or Fusion champ is everywhere for a bit and dominates arena. And when people aren't upset about such a champ, they are upset about speeds, or gear, or feeling like others are winning cause they are spending.

Unfortunately (fortunately?) I wasn't around for the Rotos/Tormin/Miscreated Monster era of tilting. There's definitely a few gaps in my Raid history due to starting Jan '21. :)

However, I certainly remember the rest. I want to say that thread was just around when I joined the forum? That one still stands out quite a bit for a few reasons. One being that I still find it strange the tendency some have that instead of trying to apply concepts, they find - or create - scenarios in which to pick apart information they or others can learn from. 

But yeah, UDK certainly isn't the first and won't be the last topic that pushes people towards raging. >_<

Nov 26, 2022, 04:2711/26/22
06/20/19
2184

Well, even a solo wythir in g5 I had to occasionally  quit against with a full team until I figured her out.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 26, 2022, 05:2011/26/22
02/24/19
7109
Angwil

Well, even a solo wythir in g5 I had to occasionally  quit against with a full team until I figured her out.

Do you cry Tin Tears? :D :D

Nov 26, 2022, 06:1911/26/22
Nov 26, 2022, 06:20(edited)
06/20/19
2184
harleQuinn

Do you cry Tin Tears? :D :D

Lol, I don't remember it was so long ago,  I probably just sucked it up with  my self pity straw and tried again.  But that's just me.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 26, 2022, 06:3011/26/22
02/24/19
7109
Angwil

Lol, I don't remember it was so long ago,  I probably just sucked it up with  my self pity straw and tried again.  But that's just me.

Tin Tears in the Tin Tier is sooooo funny. :D :D

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 26, 2022, 06:4111/26/22
02/24/19
7109
Angwil

Lol, I don't remember it was so long ago,  I probably just sucked it up with  my self pity straw and tried again.  But that's just me.

Speaking of Force Champ counters, you're picking up the Epic Fusion, yeah?

Nov 26, 2022, 06:5511/26/22
Nov 26, 2022, 06:59(edited)
06/20/19
2184
harleQuinn

Speaking of Force Champ counters, you're picking up the Epic Fusion, yeah?

Well, its hard for me to see how I won't so long as I just pay attention to th active events/tournys.  I think this is a great opportunity for newer accounts to pick up a fusion champ. And depending on where they are, one that could move them forward considerably.

personally wish it was an S-tier almost have to die to get champ (as I wish all of them were).  But these are absolufly good for the game.

Nov 26, 2022, 08:4611/26/22
604

Sry, but sure is my fault when i see at topic name with "Ultimate Deathknight and new players" and put here some GoldV. Maybe new players starting at gold five.

I see here Rotos,Tormin etc. ROTFL

I thought this topic started for starters PvPers who has difficulty against a free lego which got instantly 6star gears.

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