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Ultimate Deathknight and new players

Ultimate Deathknight and new players

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Nov 11, 2022, 18:3811/11/22
11/04/22
24

Ultimate Deathknight and new players

Hello,

I started playing Raid a week ago. I've tried getting into Arena, it's kind of an integral part of the game. Many of the competitions, challenges and missions revolve around it.

I noticed almost everyone had the Ultimate Deathknight in their lineup. I was looking forward to getting my own, but apparently they stopped handing it out on the 28th of Oct.

Quite frankly this ruins the Arena experience for new players like me. There's no equivalent, not even close. If a team has just 75%, or even less than that of your team power, but they have an Ultimate Deathknight... Expect to lose. And literally more than 50%, sometimes way more on any given refresh, have one.

I think it should either be heavily nerfed, banned from arenas under gold or reinstated as a reward to even the playing field.

The Ultimate Deathknight is the worst thing about playing Raid at the moment.

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93
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dthorne04Moderator
Nov 11, 2022, 19:0911/11/22
12/30/20
2313

Hey there. 

I'm sorry to hear you're not enjoying Arena right now. My fellow moderator harlequinn has a thread right here: https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/674_game-discussion/1413179_udk-is-unbeatable/ outlining the process of taking on UDK's.

Arena usually has some sort of roadblock, whether it be when we needed 260 speed to get into Silver or a champion like UDK who requires more of a focus on having damage on our nuker.

Could you post what champions you've got so far, and how you've got your starter built?

Nov 11, 2022, 19:1711/11/22
11/04/22
24

I appreciate that you responded, but my problem is not arena as a whole, it's that almost everyone has an Ultimate Deathknight, even at very low levels in the arena.

As I said I've played for a week. I don't have several builds. Neither do the people who have those Ultimate Deathknights, but they have it and it makes all the difference. It is simply not rated correctly when it comes to team power.

harleQuinnModerator
Nov 11, 2022, 19:3011/11/22
02/24/19
4397
AtotehZ

I appreciate that you responded, but my problem is not arena as a whole, it's that almost everyone has an Ultimate Deathknight, even at very low levels in the arena.

As I said I've played for a week. I don't have several builds. Neither do the people who have those Ultimate Deathknights, but they have it and it makes all the difference. It is simply not rated correctly when it comes to team power.

Hi there.

Yeah, team power can tricky, especially when starting. Team power is not, nor has ever been, and indicator of whether you win or lose an Arena match. Team power favors resistance above all other things, and ignores several others (like speed, one of the most important stats in the game). Typically, once you get a good handle on what types of teams you see, team power can be an indicator of how "tanky" the other team is built, but tells you little else besides.

We typically ask to see rosters cause a lot of problems can often be solved, and we are here to help people solve them.

Bronze can be powered through, even without a UDK of your own, but it requires a person to build their Starter, and potentially a Dec Def champ, all the way to 60. This enables them to outdamage a UDK's passive healing, especially in Regen. A 6 star champ is about 3x stronger than a 5 star champ, and their damage and survivability reflect this.

Anyways, if you'd like help or suggestions, we're here.

Nov 11, 2022, 19:3911/11/22
03/03/19
22

The game is a marathon, not a sprint.

Be patient and somewhere down the line (maybe a year or so) you will have many champs that can take out UDK.

Nov 12, 2022, 03:0511/12/22
11/04/22
24

I know what you're all saying is true. My issue is universally introducing something like UDK to the place new players are and then making the newest ones slug through it without. It makes the game less fun now.

I'm very close to rank 6 Kael, but ironically UDK is a partial reason I'm held back. I need energy rewards to speed things up and some are arena related.

Nov 12, 2022, 05:1511/12/22
Nov 12, 2022, 05:16(edited)
02/13/21
804
AtotehZ

I know what you're all saying is true. My issue is universally introducing something like UDK to the place new players are and then making the newest ones slug through it without. It makes the game less fun now.

I'm very close to rank 6 Kael, but ironically UDK is a partial reason I'm held back. I need energy rewards to speed things up and some are arena related.

Unfortunately this comes in waves.  Back when Ninja was given away for free for a short time, people who started soon after that complained about how everyone having Ninja except for them broke the game and experience.  Then other free champions were given out (Aleksander, Deliana), and now UDK.  

Soon you will get whatever the next free champion is and then people after you who miss it will complain again.  I'm certain that you won't remember these issues in a couple of months after you have progressed further

Instead, let's focus on what strategies you can look at to circumvent this

Nov 12, 2022, 08:1811/12/22
375
AtotehZ

I know what you're all saying is true. My issue is universally introducing something like UDK to the place new players are and then making the newest ones slug through it without. It makes the game less fun now.

I'm very close to rank 6 Kael, but ironically UDK is a partial reason I'm held back. I need energy rewards to speed things up and some are arena related.

Dont worry not just there, but slowly started at higher level leagues too, UDK with stone skin. Its not very funny.

Nov 12, 2022, 10:4211/12/22
03/03/19
22
AtotehZ

I know what you're all saying is true. My issue is universally introducing something like UDK to the place new players are and then making the newest ones slug through it without. It makes the game less fun now.

I'm very close to rank 6 Kael, but ironically UDK is a partial reason I'm held back. I need energy rewards to speed things up and some are arena related.

I'm assuming that the energy rewards you are talking about are the daily/advanced quests.

And just to point out that the arena daily quest is just battle in arena 5 times, you don't have to win, just fight.

Same with the tag team quests, except for the win against a higher team.

And like I said be patient, after a week you can't be expected to do everything and have everything handed to you.

I remember when I first started and there were several rewards I missed out on because I wasn't there yet.

And now after all the time I've been playing there are still those that have played for longer, have spent sooo much money in the game and are sooo much stronger than I am, that I still struggle in the arena and only really do it for the dailies.

And as a FTP player it only gets worse as Plarium continually add more and more things to stretch the gap between FTP and whales.

Nov 12, 2022, 11:0011/12/22
11/04/22
24
Andi

I'm assuming that the energy rewards you are talking about are the daily/advanced quests.

And just to point out that the arena daily quest is just battle in arena 5 times, you don't have to win, just fight.

Same with the tag team quests, except for the win against a higher team.

And like I said be patient, after a week you can't be expected to do everything and have everything handed to you.

I remember when I first started and there were several rewards I missed out on because I wasn't there yet.

And now after all the time I've been playing there are still those that have played for longer, have spent sooo much money in the game and are sooo much stronger than I am, that I still struggle in the arena and only really do it for the dailies.

And as a FTP player it only gets worse as Plarium continually add more and more things to stretch the gap between FTP and whales.

Since I'm a new player, there's also the Missions and challenges. Some of those also rely on passing through arena related content.

Nov 22, 2022, 10:396 days
Nov 22, 2022, 19:56(edited)
11/04/22
24

So there's an update on my situation. I have an UDK now since I won the tournament.

I know it's not necessarily what Plarium wants to hear, but I did it without spending(kinda proud of that). I will spend on monthly gems though, just haven't yet.

Since I'm in a position where I'm not on the outside anymore I just want to reiterate my opinion.

A champion like UDK should not be handed out to everyone willy nilly. It completely changes the landscape of arenas. Literally 80% or more use one, and those who don't are the ones I go for to get an easy kill most of the time. I'm silver 3-4, but will probably move to gold now that I have UDK. It makes sense to have champions like that in more experienced circles, or with people who pulled it or worked hard towards it, but everyone?

Even now that I have the champion I think it's better to simply remove the champion from the game than let things stay as they are. It would create a better PvP experience outside the top leagues. I know it can't happen and that it would be a cluster..., but I still think the game would be improved by doing it. That's how much I think the champion messes things up.

Mod note: edited for language

Nov 22, 2022, 11:316 days
Nov 22, 2022, 11:33(edited)
10/15/20
845

The fact you are looking at gold already after a week shows arena is dramatically easier than it used to be, i remember having  a years gameplay and struggling to hold gold arena. 

I understand frustration, but at a week of playing i would really not worry about arena at all other than doing dailies.

I would be focussing on getting your starter champ to 60, then building a team that can do the dungeons.

UDK is useful to counter some teams (single target big hitters) but if i see an UDK in defence i can kill him fine.

There is a ceiling for FTP where it becomes extremely difficult to break into the ranks without spending, but i would put that at G4 tag and Plat arena.

Most of my clan are FTP and i know at least one of those FTP players has hit G4 tag.

Game success is based on two things, gear (hence why you need dungeon teams) and roster (which can be sped up by whaling).

Gear comes from grinding, a LOT of grinding- but when you can forge perception gear, do so as it is top tier.

Nov 22, 2022, 11:346 days
Nov 22, 2022, 11:35(edited)
11/04/22
24
trevor.wilson

The fact you are looking at gold already after a week shows arena is dramatically easier than it used to be, i remember having  a years gameplay and struggling to hold gold arena. 

I understand frustration, but at a week of playing i would really not worry about arena at all other than doing dailies.

I would be focussing on getting your starter champ to 60, then building a team that can do the dungeons.

UDK is useful to counter some teams (single target big hitters) but if i see an UDK in defence i can kill him fine.

There is a ceiling for FTP where it becomes extremely difficult to break into the ranks without spending, but i would put that at G4 tag and Plat arena.

Most of my clan are FTP and i know at least one of those FTP players has hit G4 tag.

Game success is based on two things, gear (hence why you need dungeon teams) and roster (which can be sped up by whaling).

Gear comes from grinding, a LOT of grinding- but when you can forge perception gear, do so as it is top tier.

I have 2x rank 6 and 4x rank 5. Their gear is soso, but if looked at by a more experienced player would probably look bad, haven't had time to get that yet.

I have a 6* rare weapon and gloves from perception.

Nov 22, 2022, 12:126 days
10/15/20
1512
AtotehZ

So there's an update on my situation. I have an UDK now since I won the tournament.

I know it's not necessarily what Plarium wants to hear, but I did it without spending(kinda proud of that). I will spend on monthly gems though, just haven't yet.

Since I'm in a position where I'm not on the outside anymore I just want to reiterate my opinion.

A champion like UDK should not be handed out to everyone willy nilly. It completely changes the landscape of arenas. Literally 80% or more use one, and those who don't are the ones I go for to get an easy kill most of the time. I'm silver 3-4, but will probably move to gold now that I have UDK. It makes sense to have champions like that in more experienced circles, or with people who pulled it or worked hard towards it, but everyone?

Even now that I have the champion I think it's better to simply remove the champion from the game than let things stay as they are. It would create a better PvP experience outside the top leagues. I know it can't happen and that it would be a cluster..., but I still think the game would be improved by doing it. That's how much I think the champion messes things up.

Mod note: edited for language

Early game players don't struggle with UDK because he is so good. They struggle because they don't know how to beat him. That's ok, if you are new, you don't know the game mechanics like an expirienced player. It's part of the game. You don't know all tricks at the beginning, but while playing you get better and better.

UDK is easy prey in arena, if you know what you are doing. A damage dealer that attacks all enemies isn't blocked by his passive protection and can take out UDK's team mates, a champ with 100% heal reduction is good enough to counter UDK himself. 

You are one week in. Just to give you a scale what that means:  all players get a quite good legendary champ (Scyl of the Drakes) for free as log-in reward at day 180. Some players are in the game for several years. The game is supposed to be played long term. The developers want players to stay. If you are close to gold after one week of playing, arena is far to easy now. In the "good old days", players could hope to join gold arena after several months of playing.

Nov 22, 2022, 12:486 days
Nov 22, 2022, 12:49(edited)
10/15/20
845
AtotehZ

I have 2x rank 6 and 4x rank 5. Their gear is soso, but if looked at by a more experienced player would probably look bad, haven't had time to get that yet.

I have a 6* rare weapon and gloves from perception.

I am no expert but it sounds like you are focussing on the right stuff

Incidentally for stall / go second defences there are a fair few epics i would use ahead of UDK in arena - Godseeker, Seeker, Sandlashed come to mind

I dont know how good he is in dungeons as i havent tried him but for arena he looks designed to combat certain defences, used in attack

Nov 22, 2022, 14:005 days
11/04/22
24
Skadi

Early game players don't struggle with UDK because he is so good. They struggle because they don't know how to beat him. That's ok, if you are new, you don't know the game mechanics like an expirienced player. It's part of the game. You don't know all tricks at the beginning, but while playing you get better and better.

UDK is easy prey in arena, if you know what you are doing. A damage dealer that attacks all enemies isn't blocked by his passive protection and can take out UDK's team mates, a champ with 100% heal reduction is good enough to counter UDK himself. 

You are one week in. Just to give you a scale what that means:  all players get a quite good legendary champ (Scyl of the Drakes) for free as log-in reward at day 180. Some players are in the game for several years. The game is supposed to be played long term. The developers want players to stay. If you are close to gold after one week of playing, arena is far to easy now. In the "good old days", players could hope to join gold arena after several months of playing.

The title is "Ultimate Deathknight and new players". New players don't have an entire lineup of champions that are geared especially to deal with one specific champion. I know how to deal with him, but I pretty much don't have the means. Other new players won't either. Arena is centered 100% around that one champion when you start playing arena as a new player. It's literally "2 of 10 don't have UDK, maybe I can try attacking them."

It feels like you're not aware how entirely onesided fights against him are when you're not equipped to deal with him yet, which is 80% or more of the fights you're offered.

I have a lvl 60 Kael, fully ascended, somewhat decent gear. Kunoichi rank 6 as well, not 60 yet and depending on the fight another nuker(Galek) in rank 5/lvl50. If the opponent has something to block just one of the nukes I'm typically shit outta luck. Most of the time it's not worth it to try.

I get that later on your lineup has diversity, but at the start you play the hand you're given. And it's often very bad against UDK.

So my question to you is. Does the game being geared towards playing well in the long run have to mean you can't have fun at the start?

Nov 22, 2022, 14:215 days
02/11/21
377
AtotehZ

The title is "Ultimate Deathknight and new players". New players don't have an entire lineup of champions that are geared especially to deal with one specific champion. I know how to deal with him, but I pretty much don't have the means. Other new players won't either. Arena is centered 100% around that one champion when you start playing arena as a new player. It's literally "2 of 10 don't have UDK, maybe I can try attacking them."

It feels like you're not aware how entirely onesided fights against him are when you're not equipped to deal with him yet, which is 80% or more of the fights you're offered.

I have a lvl 60 Kael, fully ascended, somewhat decent gear. Kunoichi rank 6 as well, not 60 yet and depending on the fight another nuker(Galek) in rank 5/lvl50. If the opponent has something to block just one of the nukes I'm typically shit outta luck. Most of the time it's not worth it to try.

I get that later on your lineup has diversity, but at the start you play the hand you're given. And it's often very bad against UDK.

So my question to you is. Does the game being geared towards playing well in the long run have to mean you can't have fun at the start?

Check out the (UDK is ubeatable) thread here, one of the mods works through arena without having UDK. 

I'm curious to see your arena lineup and their gear/stats. Could you post the screenshots?

Nov 22, 2022, 14:345 days
10/15/20
1512
AtotehZ

The title is "Ultimate Deathknight and new players". New players don't have an entire lineup of champions that are geared especially to deal with one specific champion. I know how to deal with him, but I pretty much don't have the means. Other new players won't either. Arena is centered 100% around that one champion when you start playing arena as a new player. It's literally "2 of 10 don't have UDK, maybe I can try attacking them."

It feels like you're not aware how entirely onesided fights against him are when you're not equipped to deal with him yet, which is 80% or more of the fights you're offered.

I have a lvl 60 Kael, fully ascended, somewhat decent gear. Kunoichi rank 6 as well, not 60 yet and depending on the fight another nuker(Galek) in rank 5/lvl50. If the opponent has something to block just one of the nukes I'm typically shit outta luck. Most of the time it's not worth it to try.

I get that later on your lineup has diversity, but at the start you play the hand you're given. And it's often very bad against UDK.

So my question to you is. Does the game being geared towards playing well in the long run have to mean you can't have fun at the start?

Does fun at the start mean you have to reach the highest rank in PvP in week 1? 

There is so many content in the game. Gold 1 arena is something like the equivalent to lvl 20 dungeons (higher tiers of gold to dungeonlevels beyond 20). Why should players, who are not as far in the game to beat this PvE content, stay in the gold arena?


Beside the original topic of this thread: I would not level up Galek if you allready have a lvl 60 Kael. Maybe there hides a better choice in your champion roster.

Nov 22, 2022, 17:395 days
11/04/22
24

I am not on week one any more, but I guess there's little difference between week 1 and 3 in the grand scheme of things.

It isn't my point either. The point is that I'm only able to get there because of the champion that's honestly broken down in bronze and low silver tiers, in the place where 80% of the fights are "don't even try" because of 1 single champion. I haven't gotten to gold yet. I'm at 1913 rating and climbing relatively fast, but I lose most of my defenses(6/6 lost in last 3hrs). When I get further up I'll take a beating. It's not that I'm ready to be in gold, it's that a broken champion will get me +250 rating more no problem, even though it'll be hard to stay up there. Again, I know there are ways to deal with him, but there are less people who can in low silver and down.

I'm not Ranking Galek up to 6. I got him early and having him rank 5 wasn't too hard to get.

My lineup is still a mess. I don't have a complete team yet. Not their gear, not their levels and not the champions themselves.

Here are my champions:

i

Please keep in mind that I got UDK(ascension 3 later today) today and Kunoichi got Rank 6 today. It's not that this is what I wanna use, it's just what I have.

I never really wanted Warpriest rank 5, but it just fit as part of getting pts for the tournament I got UDK with. Jizoh and Basher are new and I don't know what to make of them yet.

I use hellhades for tips a lot, but getting the stuff they recommend is another story. If I have items with great stats and they recommend a different set where I have practically bupkis, there's really no choice.

Nov 22, 2022, 17:465 days
375

Basher and you will have a mini warlord. He will increase the enemies active skill cooldowns in arena if enough fast. And dont forget, he fantastic in FW. Good crowd controller.

Nov 22, 2022, 17:505 days
Nov 22, 2022, 17:51(edited)
11/04/22
24
Deleted

Basher and you will have a mini warlord. He will increase the enemies active skill cooldowns in arena if enough fast. And dont forget, he fantastic in FW. Good crowd controller.

Thanks. I have some friends playing Raid pretty hardcore. In fact they streamed playing over discord to me a couple of weeks before I started, that's why I got off the ground pretty well. I'll ask them how to handle Basher.