Haven Defense vs. Fireship

18 Replies
Gut
19 March, 2017, 2:45 PM UTC
What Haven Defense value is required to nullify one FS launched at me?
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Crowbar
Moderator
19 March, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC
Nothing has any impact on Fireships. Not haven defence (neither skins, nor fortifications, nor improvements, nor relics), not discovery improvements, not potions, not items,... nothing. The only way to not lose troops to them is to have them safely tucked in the harbour.
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Scud88
20 March, 2017, 12:09 PM UTC
Haven defense is only an optical aspect. you haven Looks nice, but it hasnt any effect
Ein Mensch ohne Träume ist wie ein Boot ohne Segel!
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Crowbar
Moderator
20 March, 2017, 1:04 PM UTC
Scud88 said:

Haven defense is only an optical aspect. you haven Looks nice, but it hasnt any effect
It does help against raids and block attempts.
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TomCl
20 March, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

Crowbar said:


Scud88 said:


Haven defense is only an optical aspect. you haven Looks nice, but it hasnt any effect
It does help against raids and block attempts.

Says plarium.

But where is the proof?

At first was said the protection to be x, later the fire ships were exempted.

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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
20 March, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC
TomCl said:

But where is the proof?

You don't believe that 100 points of Haven Defense bonus give you 1% to Units Defense? 
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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Crowbar
Moderator
20 March, 2017, 7:54 PM UTC

TomCl said:

Says plarium.

But where is the proof?

That's easy to check. Find a highly fortified inactive haven. Have someone send 10k worth of Bonnies and hit them with 10k worth of Marauders. Let me know how it went. That's how I checked the effects of Fireships and how I found the formulae that I wrote on some other topics. Blind mistrust makes as much sense as blind trust.

You can even go with 1k, if 10k is too much for you to spend on a simple experiment.

Or just keep believing that the bonus is a lie, without checking. That'll be convincing, especially for us who experienced the effects of the bonus.

TomCl said:

At first was said the protection to be x, later the fire ships were exempted.

From the moment FSs were introduced, it was said that they are immune to everything. At least on Kabam.

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Gut
20 March, 2017, 8:44 PM UTC
But the Royal Cannon isn't a unit, so why does it get destroyed?
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Crowbar
Moderator
20 March, 2017, 10:14 PM UTC

Gut said:

But the Royal Cannon isn't a unit, so why does it get destroyed?

A penalty for losing a battle? A lame attempt to get us to defend? Further help for coiner to know that there's no def left (in case of Fireshipping)?

What does that have to do with haven def bonus?
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Gut
20 March, 2017, 11:10 PM UTC

Crowbar said:


Gut said:

But the Royal Cannon isn't a unit, so why does it get destroyed?

A penalty for losing a battle? A lame attempt to get us to defend? Further help for coiner to know that there's no def left (in case of Fireshipping)?

What does that have to do with haven def bonus?

In spite of my Haven Defense Level, can my Royal Cannon be reset via a FS?  It is a question, not an accusation.  I apologize if I didn't phrase it in exact terms.


What I'm then asking is, 1)is the Royal Cannon considered a unit and 2)should I be buying haven defense that then acts like units?
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Crowbar
Moderator
21 March, 2017, 7:11 AM UTC

I still don't understand what's your question.

Your royal cannon goes down:

  • In case of Fireship attacks, when Fireships that hit you can kill more than you have out, which is a signal to the attacker that you are "cleared out". In this case, your haven defence plays no role apart from haven guards (all 3 types) having some def points (not just haven bonus) that contributes to your defence as if they were ordinary troops.
  • in case of ordinary attacks, when the battle is labelled a "Defeat" for you and a "Victory" for the attacker. In this case, the haven bonus is applied to all of your defending troops as an addition to their basic strength (so, if your troops have 50% extra from discoveries, relics, etc. and your haven bonus is 10k=100% extra, your bonus will be 150%).

Royal Cannon is not considered a unit, but neither are haven guards, and all of them can go down. You get to revive/rebuild both for free and they cannot get sent anywhere (as reinfs, attackers, etc), unlike "real" units. Confusingly enough, Royal Cannon is useless in battles. It's only used for a resource bonus.

I hope it is clearer now.

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JSisapirate
22 March, 2017, 1:48 AM UTC

Now you all got me confused...my haven has level 3 walls, gates, cannons completely around it...value in top left of screen says almost 7,000 Haven defense...What exactly do the walls protect me from, and how is it calculated?

An enemy hits me with FS...my haven troops die...along with the bonnies my bh members reinforced me with.

If i have a bunch of unharbored troops, it may take 2 or 3 FS's to clean me out...


So your saying Haven defense does zero against FS?


Now what about raids?

Is there a formula to use? is my haven wall defense of 7,000 no different than leaving 7,000 power units worth of Bonnies sitting there to protect my haven?

John Smith
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Crowbar
Moderator
22 March, 2017, 8:00 AM UTC

JSisapirate, we answered all that. The bonus you get is +70% (7000/100=70) on the units' base strength and it protects your troops from raids and blocks, but not Fireships.

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Scud88
22 March, 2017, 8:00 AM UTC

@Crowbar:



When i get it right, you mean that every 100 Points haven defense grants me an additional Bonus of 1% for my defensive Units ( i think only in my haven and not in General).

that would mean, if i have 30.000 haven defense, it would power up my Units by 300% (expect the other bonuses?)


so. if i have a unit with 400 Point (only as a calculation example) it would have 1200 defense Points + relicts + Research + alchemy potions + Bastion Bonus + Brotherhood Bonus ? that would make something around 1600 Points for that unit. sry but i dont think that there is such an immense Bonus,  nearly no one could defeat you on your Island if this is true.


AND:  the bonuses are shown for my Units. but when i look  on my Units in my haven (not Depot) the 300% Bonus istn shown. not in the additon view and not in the for the total defense value which is also shown.


when you say that this Bonus is active and working, why are These things untransparten?

Ein Mensch ohne Träume ist wie ein Boot ohne Segel!
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Crowbar
Moderator
22 March, 2017, 11:04 AM UTC

You "don't think"? Why don't you check? I explained how, it's easy, and it's not my concern if you choose to "think" about something that's easily verifiable.

The Help system shows you some unit's stats, but it disregards their situation, i.e., where they are now (haven, Presidio, island,...). A long time ago, it didn't even put "?" for other people's reinfs, causing a lot of confusion if your own upgrades affect all the reinfs. So, don't rely on it.

P.S. +300% = 4 times more, not 3 times. If you have a unit of 400 basic strength and, say, 75% on research, relics,... and 30k haven def, then their strength will be 400+(300+75)% = 400*4.75.

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Gut
24 March, 2017, 11:04 PM UTC

Are FS 100% undefendable, or would a haven full of Unit Defense (see link) provide protection if their (unit) defense amounted to 13.6k?


http://prntscr.com/eo4if7
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Icy
Moderator
24 March, 2017, 11:53 PM UTC
Otherside of that is fs are the only unit that doesn't get bonuses from bastion, prestige, relics, boosts or potions
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Crowbar
Moderator
25 March, 2017, 10:11 AM UTC

Gut said:


Are FS 100% undefendable, or would a haven full of Unit Defense (see link) provide protection if their (unit) defense amounted to 13.6k?

http://prntscr.com/eo4if7

If their base defence (without bonuses) was 12.6k, they'd be enough to counteract 1 FS, BUT

  1. You cannot have that much haven def (the max. is 5 Scallywags, 10 Redcoats, and 10 Gunner's Mates, so the total is 2.75k of base points).
  2. The losses are equally distributed among defending units. This means that even if you could have 12.6k worth of these units, and if you had - for example - 3*12.6k worth of normal troops (making 4*12.6k worth of total), when hit with 1 FS you'd lose 1/4 of haven def and 1/4 of normal def, i.e., 3.15k of haven def and 9.45k of normal units.

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Gut
25 March, 2017, 11:14 AM UTC
Crowbar said:

Gut said:


Are FS 100% undefendable, or would a haven full of Unit Defense (see link) provide protection if their (unit) defense amounted to 13.6k?

http://prntscr.com/eo4if7

If their base defence (without bonuses) was 12.6k, they'd be enough to counteract 1 FS, BUT

  1. You cannot have that much haven def (the max. is 5 Scallywags, 10 Redcoats, and 10 Gunner's Mates, so the total is 2.75k of base points).
  2. The losses are equally distributed among defending units. This means that even if you could have 12.6k worth of these units, and if you had - for example - 3*12.6k worth of normal troops (making 4*12.6k worth of total), when hit with 1 FS you'd lose 1/4 of haven def and 1/4 of normal def, i.e., 3.15k of haven def and 9.45k of normal units.

Answered completely and learned much, thanks!
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