Train Units

10 Replies
awmllr
9 January, 2017, 12:07 AM UTC

Could someone explain how points are given and then subtracted while training units during a Brotherhood Adventure?

I train 20 Nautilus, go to the Brotherhood Adventure tab and My Contribution shows 881 points. I next train 10 Tempest Ornithopter and it shows my contribution as 1166 points. Add 20 Aquanaut and my contribution has dropped to 800 points. Add 500 Marauders and my contribution is back to 1305 points. Add 20 Cannoneer and my contribution shows to be 1485 points. Add 15 Gunboat and my contribution shows to be 1785 points. Add 15 Subs and my contribution shows to be 1932 points. Add 20 Grenadier and my contribution shows to be 2007 points. I check back 10 minutes later (not training anymore units) and my contribution shows to be 1857 points. Anyone have the answer as to how this works?
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Crowbar
Moderator
9 January, 2017, 9:08 AM UTC

Your BH adventure score should never drop. That part is a bug, IMO. Not sure if it's just visual (i.e., in the end you get the correct score) or more serious. You can check that when I explain how this score is computed.

First, a bit of Plraium terminology: basic points of a unit are

  1. off points for offensive units,
  2. average def points (i.e., the sum over all 4 types, divided by 4) for def units,
  3. scouting points for scouting units,

all taken into account without any bonuses. For example, a Bonnie has (20+20+18+18)/4 = 19 basic points, regardless of relics, discovery upgrades, prestige, haven def, potions,... anything! A Marauder has 40 basic points.

These are the points that FSs fight against, for example (so, a FS can kill 12600/19 = 663 Bonnies or 12600/40 = 315 Marauders if they are alone).

Back to your question: for a "training" BH adventure, your score is the sum of basic points for all the troops you put in the oven (plus those you revive, I think) divided by 40. That's all there is to it, nothing more. I know, kinda anticlimactic. ;-)

Anyway, a Nautilus has (600+750+1275+900)/4 = 881.25 basic points, so 20 Nautili have 20*881.25 = 17625, giving you 17625/40 = 440 points. Looks to me like you trained 40 Nautili (not just 20) to get to 881.

Next, an Orni has 1140 basic points, so 10 of them will give you a score of 1140*10/40 = 285. Add that to 881 you had before and it's 1166.

Adding 20 Aquanauts should've given you 150*20/40 = 75 points, getting you to 1166+75 = 1241.

Etc.

If you go through this to the end, you'll see how much you should've gotten. If the end result is severely wrong, you might want to submit a very detailed ticket (like your original post, with any further details that you can add).

I hope this helps you.

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awmllr
9 January, 2017, 11:12 AM UTC
Thanks Crowbar. Since I seem to have this problem each time I train units, I took screenshots along the way. And, it was 20 Nautilus for sure. Not 40.
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Snowgoon
12 January, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

I give crowbar 99 out of 100 for his excellent answer


He loses one point for saying that fireships kill 315 marauders hehe

12600/40 = 315 Marauders if they are alone).


Marauders only have 6.75 baseline defense but crow used their attack value

Base points are the same as Power Points except that Power Points are always calculated by dividing a unit's basic primary stats by 40

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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Crowbar
Moderator
13 January, 2017, 7:01 AM UTC

Snowgoon said:


He loses one point for saying that fireships kill 315 marauders hehe

12600/40 = 315 Marauders if they are alone).

Marauders only have 6.75 baseline defense but crow used their attack value

I think you've missed my numbered list above.

Mars are off units and their basic points is their off strength. That's why I wrote on some other topic that off is harder to kill by FSs than def (plus reducing the attacker's PvPs, but that's besides the point here).

I tested this many months ago by having a BH mate FS 1k of my Mars on an abandoned haven. It killed exactly 315 of them.

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Snowgoon
13 January, 2017, 1:15 PM UTC

Crowbar said:


Snowgoon said:


He loses one point for saying that fireships kill 315 marauders hehe

12600/40 = 315 Marauders if they are alone).

Marauders only have 6.75 baseline defense but crow used their attack value

I think you've missed my numbered list above.

Mars are off units and their basic points is their off strength. That's why I wrote on some other topic that off is harder to kill by FSs than def (plus reducing the attacker's PvPs, but that's besides the point here).


I tested this many months ago by having a BH mate FS 1k of my Mars on an abandoned haven. It killed exactly 315 of them.

That is crazy, but thx for the info

It is probably a bug - No unit should ever use it's offensive value whilst defending

If it is a bug then you should be reimbursed the cost of 1k mara and fireship and also claim a finder's-fee lol
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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CaptChuckles
13 January, 2017, 5:32 PM UTC

Crowbar said:


Your BH adventure score should never drop. That part is a bug, IMO. Not sure if it's just visual (i.e., in the end you get the correct score) or more serious. You can check that when I explain how this score is computed.

First, a bit of Plraium terminology: basic points of a unit are


  1. off points for offensive units,
  2. average def points (i.e., the sum over all 4 types, divided by 4) for def units,
  3. scouting points for scouting units,

all taken into account without any bonuses. For example, a Bonnie has (20+20+18+18)/4 = 19 basic points, regardless of relics, discovery upgrades, prestige, haven def, potions,... anything! A Marauder has 40 basic points.

These are the points that FSs fight against, for example (so, a FS can kill 12600/19 = 663 Bonnies or 12600/40 = 315 Marauders if they are alone).

Back to your question: for a "training" BH adventure, your score is the sum of basic points for all the troops you put in the oven (plus those you revive, I think) divided by 40. That's all there is to it, nothing more. I know, kinda anticlimactic. ;-)

Anyway, a Nautilus has (600+750+1275+900)/4 = 881.25 basic points, so 20 Nautili have 20*881.25 = 17625, giving you 17625/40 = 440 points. Looks to me like you trained 40 Nautili (not just 20) to get to 881.

Next, an Orni has 1140 basic points, so 10 of them will give you a score of 1140*10/40 = 285. Add that to 881 you had before and it's 1166.

Adding 20 Aquanauts should've given you 150*20/40 = 75 points, getting you to 1166+75 = 1241.

Etc.

If you go through this to the end, you'll see how much you should've gotten. If the end result is severely wrong, you might want to submit a very detailed ticket (like your original post, with any further details that you can add).

I hope this helps you.

Interesting info there Crowbar, thank you.

Would you have a similar calculation with regard to points awarded on losses sustained?
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Crowbar
Moderator
13 January, 2017, 8:34 PM UTC

Snowgoon said:

It is probably a bug - No unit should ever use it's offensive value whilst defending
If it is a bug then you should be reimbursed the cost of 1k mara and fireship and also claim a finder's-fee lol

I don't think it is. When Fireships first appeared, it was said that they kill "1 for 1 point" and it bugged me a lot what does that mean. It was only later that Plarium started mentioning "basic points" (or a similar name) when I realised that this is what they mean by "1 for 1 point".

And I lost only 315 Mars, not 1k (the rest survived)... plus 663 Bonnies, with another FS, to properly check the theory. ;-)

CaptChuckles said:

Would you have a similar calculation with regard to points awarded on losses sustained?

If you mean PvPs, that's not completely clear. I have a pretty good theory, but it sometimes fails (possibly with extreme differences between strengths of the armies, or maybe some other factor I failed to notice). What I got so far is:

  1. First compute each player's "losses points". In normal "off attacks def" situation, that's total basic points of your lost units divided by 40.
  2. However, defending off's score and (I imagine, but I didn't test) attacking def's score is divided by 6 (which is why killing unturtled off won't give you much PvPs). I other words, if you attack a haven and kill 3 Bonnies and 10 Marauders, your opponent's "losses points" will only be (3*19+10*40/6)/40 = 3.09 (rounds down to 3).
  3. I suspect it's further divided by 2 or 3 for inactive and long inactive haven's, but that's hard to test as not many inactive have troops out and I don't feel much like kicking a dead horse.
  4. Once you have these points, let us call them Y for your losses and E for your enemy's losses, you get E+Y/5, while they get Y+E/5. So, you get full points for what you kill, but only 1/5 of what your own dying troops were worth.

It's been a while since I got this and, as I said, it was still occasionally off, but it seemed to work most of the time.

I hope it helps you and, please, post any corrections that you might have.

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CaptChuckles
13 January, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

So is it divided by 6 as in point 2, or by 5 as in point 4 ? 

Also is it safe to assume from this that haven def units are destroyed should the off force exceed the requirement to destroy the def units but only if this condition is met?

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Crowbar
Moderator
13 January, 2017, 10:42 PM UTC

CaptChuckles said:

So is it divided by 6 as in point 2, or by 5 as in point 4 ? 

Can be both. Different reasons for dividing. For example, if you attack a haven that has nothing but 30 Mars and you kill them all, then they give you (30*40/6)/40=5 PvPs, but the attacked player will get only ((30*40/6)/5)/40=1 PvP.

CaptChuckles said:

Also is it safe to assume from this that haven def units are destroyed should the off force exceed the requirement to destroy the def units but only if this condition is met?
Sorry, I don't understand this question.

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User Deleted
13 January, 2017, 11:27 PM UTC

you will never be able to calculate with 100% accuracy because there is so many things which can effect on strenght of troops 

things like discovery lvl of troops , prestige , potions , bonuses from bastion , relics...smugglers den items.....i think that all that can spoil every math formula you have :)


still maybe im wrong :)
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