Statistics Defense pane doesn't match actual unit Defense at obelisk?

32 Replies
sammycableguy2003
18 February, 2016, 3:23 PM UTC
I have looked at the defensive statistics pane and compared it to my actual defensive strength at out obelisks and found a huge difference. Why do these not match. How can we manage our clan minimum defensive expectations if the numbers are wrong? What can you do to fix this? 
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FaZi
18 February, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

It is possible that you included special units bonus as well while calculating at your own or you have missed calculating basic strength of your special units.


In actual legendary/Special units base value is counted towards your obelisk defense not the bonus it provides in presence of supporting units.


Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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sammycableguy2003
18 February, 2016, 9:54 PM UTC
Well I'll explain it like this. I go to 1 of my obelisks and select recall, this shows me just my troops and gives me the choice to select which I want to recall. I select all my units and look at the defensive strength at the top. I add up all 3 defensive strengths from each of our 3 obelisks and the value is 802k defensive strength. My statistics shows I have 602k defensive value at our obelisks. Which now makes the statistics bar incorrect or somehow the recall values incorrect. Either way it is hard to manage clan member expected defensive strengths, if I am quoting incorrect numbers.
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Adrian
19 February, 2016, 11:42 AM UTC

Hiya sorry if I highjacked your post a bit but which yields better Tournament points? A fully developed stronghold with all built in defenses or a lvl 5 ob?

Thanks
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Blasphemy
Moderator
19 February, 2016, 2:34 PM UTC

Well honestly i think they are all useful in there own lil ways, i really can't compare these because like i said each one helps in different way


I am a daughter of a High King who is not moved by this world for my God is with me and goes before me, I do not fear because im his
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FaZi
19 February, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC
sammycableguy2003 said:

Well I'll explain it like this. I go to 1 of my obelisks and select recall, this shows me just my troops and gives me the choice to select which I want to recall. I select all my units and look at the defensive strength at the top. I add up all 3 defensive strengths from each of our 3 obelisks and the value is 802k defensive strength. My statistics shows I have 602k defensive value at our obelisks. Which now makes the statistics bar incorrect or somehow the recall values incorrect. Either way it is hard to manage clan member expected defensive strengths, if I am quoting incorrect numbers.
Can you please provide screenshot of both defense values
Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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FaZi
20 February, 2016, 6:48 AM UTC

there is no image :(


please go to imgur.com and upload your screenshot than click insert image & paste the url.


Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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orionbre
20 February, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC
Adrian said:

Hiya sorry if I highjacked your post a bit but which yields better Tournament points? A fully developed stronghold with all built in defenses or a lvl 5 ob?

Thanks
stronghold. lvl 5 ob gives 25% bonus, and you should get 1% bonus def per every 100 points of sh def. so at 10k sh def you get 100% def bonus. not to mention 30% free troop ressurection
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FaZi
20 February, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

What is your in game nick? I can''t figure out the difference with this. & can you please also check if you have other legendary units in ob 1, 2 & 3?


i can see lairwatcher in ob1, lairwatcher in ob2 & lairwatcher & consumed one in ob3.

Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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sammycableguy2003
20 February, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC
In the Statistics screen shot, I am Thundor. And yes there are other Legendaries. Still my question is, How can I manage my clan defensive requirements if the Statistics number does not match the total individual numbers. Whether there is Legendaries or not. There is a very large difference.
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XploiT
20 February, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

orionbre said:


you should get 1% bonus def per every 100 points of sh def. so at 10k sh def you get 100% def bonus


Sorry but this is just a speculation, not the fact.

As per InGame FAQ, only Gates provide ‘passive’ defenses bonuses (and there isn’t any official source that provides the exact % of bonuses that each level of gates bring to the troops behind them).

As for cannons, torrents and (I imagine) guards, they ‘will actively participate in defensive battles just like one of your regular Units.’ (as per FAQ)



And Sammy, duuuude, you really should think twice about publicly posting those clan numbers.

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orionbre
20 February, 2016, 10:06 PM UTC

XploiT said:


orionbre said:


you should get 1% bonus def per every 100 points of sh def. so at 10k sh def you get 100% def bonus


Sorry but this is just a speculation, not the fact.

As per InGame FAQ, only Gates provide ‘passive’ defenses bonuses (and there isn’t any official source that provides the exact % of bonuses that each level of gates bring to the troops behind them).

As for cannons, torrents and (I imagine) guards, they ‘will actively participate in defensive battles just like one of your regular Units.’ (as per FAQ)



And Sammy, duuuude, you really should think twice about publicly posting those clan numbers.

I agree it is speculative, and I hope that Plarium would reveal those data. They are hiding some info about the game without any reason. 

Still, I am sure that the best way to get pvp tour point is defending your own sh. and probably only other viable option is attacking enemy ob (lvl 1 pref) during both ob carnage and pvp tour for double reward.
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XploiT
21 February, 2016, 2:23 AM UTC

Totally agree with you about us being kept in dark about battle mechanics. So speculations based on experience, or, as someone put it, educated guessing is the only means for us to predict the fight outcomes and their impact on tournament earnings.


So, if you allow me, here is a quick summery of my speculations related to best way to get PvP based tournament points:


1. Defending strongholds with decent defenses is the best way for earning points. Firstly, because points rewards are calculated based on resources cost of units killed, and offensive units are much more costly than defensive. Second, because of stronghold bonuses, discrepancy between Offensive and Defensive losses can be quite huge, making defensive units far more effective in earning points. (in img, note that I have a strong assumption about attacker units being boosted to their full, and defended stronghold was less than half developed)


Thirdly, Its relatively very easy to engage defensive fights: at the time of ongoing tournaments, there is always a friend in need of help, or if you are that much in lack of patience, quicker way is just to go poke someone known for having a shot fuse.   

But, due to weird points distribution system in joined defenses, I strongly advise having dominant firepower within defended stronghold if you want any significant earnings in relation to your losses.


2. Attacking stashes and strongholds with no defensive structures. Unlike hitting OBs, the good thing here is that you can put in use all your offensive firepower gaining that OP bonus in having fewer losses for same kills. For ‘blind’ attacks, one would prefer stashes just because they don’t know you are coming. (finding someone’s offencives camping outside the catacombs is just messing with bad karma). Bad side here is that it sometimes takes a lot of time to add up all the points from smaller hits.


3. Attacking OBs, the lower level the better. This is a good tradeoff for your ‘junk’ troops, yet I see players sending dragons and elves to this kind in suicide missions with no strategic benefits. OBs are quick find, so they are perfect tourney fix if you have ‘something better to do with your time’.


There, tried to keep it short. So, if you find my speculations false, or have some of your own to add, please do, for we are all in dark here.


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FaZi
21 February, 2016, 6:45 AM UTC

sammycableguy2003 said:


In the Statistics screen shot, I am Thundor. And yes there are other Legendaries. Still my question is, How can I manage my clan defensive requirements if the Statistics number does not match the total individual numbers. Whether there is Legendaries or not. There is a very large difference.

With my calculations it is perfectly fine.


I think you did not get my points what i tried to said earlier, The bonus you get from legendary is not counted in your ob defense only the base value while in your personal defense it does count.


Here is the example.

IN Ob1 you got 2 lair wacthers which provides you the bonus of 25.25K.  & you have some other troops for let say 50K.


When you will check it by your self it will show you 50K+25.25K+5409.6(base value for lair watcher)


while in OB it will be 50K+5409.6 in here 25K is not counted.



Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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sammycableguy2003
21 February, 2016, 10:47 AM UTC

Ok, so when I tell one of our clan members That I only see he has 60k defense at our OB # 4, and he shoots back to me that NO, in fact he is showing 100k defense there. Who is right? The point being is these numbers need to match for the Statistics pane to be an effective tool. Otherwise I am just guessing at what defensive value each member has at our Obelisks. And when we require a certain number of minimum defense from each clan member, this cannot be monitored effectively. As I explained earlier the way I can select just my troops at the OB should show me the value at the OB as the troops are still there, they are not in my SH part of my personal defense until I actually hit the recall troops button.


I have read and reread what you said above and it occurs to me that Lair watchers do not get their bonus at the OB?? So even if I send accompanying rockwings with the lair watchers to the OB, there is no bonus? Why is that?
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FaZi
21 February, 2016, 12:04 PM UTC

well you got it all wrong my friend.


i said not counted, i didn't say no bonus is given.


Bonus is there and it will be effective in case of an attack at your OB but is not counted in calculation of defense (that you see in ob).


One simple solution is ask players that do not count legendary units toward ob defense & figures will be a near match for you & players. Or for 100% you can tell intelligent one's that base value is counted of legendary unit not the bonus. In case they have legendary units in ob they need to subtract the bonus of legendary units which they get from supporting units.


& why is that?


Let me tell you one example.

currently supporting units are alive so your lair watcher is getting bonus but what if lair watcher survive the attack but supporting units got killed. What will be left? Ofcourse only the base value not the bonus. So to give you good analysis in terms of your defense strategy and give you most accurate numbers this thing is implemented.



Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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sammycableguy2003
21 February, 2016, 12:40 PM UTC

Ok so the end result is, the Statistics tab is not accurate in managing how much defense each clan member has at our OB's. Without matching values and not having intelligent clan members, it would be a nightmare to explain how to not include the bonus. Actual numbers would make this tool useful. 


In your example, real time numbers would be more useful than "analysis in terms of your defense strategy and give you most accurate numbers this thing is implemented."

If I send Lair Watchers and someone else sends supporting units, does the bonus still apply? Or only if I send supporting units with my Lair Watchers? Are Obelisk defenses concidered 1 army?

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FaZi
21 February, 2016, 1:20 PM UTC

sammycableguy2003 said:


If I send Lair Watchers and someone else sends supporting units, does the bonus still apply? Or only if I send supporting units with my Lair Watchers? Are Obelisk defenses concidered 1 army?

I would like to have a 2nd opinion on this but i think obelisk army is considered separetaly for each player hence your lair watcher need to have your supporting units.


Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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FaZi
21 February, 2016, 1:23 PM UTC

regarding how player can calculate value of actual defense

they can go to obelisk click recall (on specific obelisk) select all


Defense value will be given at the top and they can simply subtract bonus (which is shown next to base value of legenedary units). Such as 296169.8 is total defense value and you have lair watchers in there and provided bonus by them is 25.25K


final value will be 269169.8-25025


Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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sammycableguy2003
21 February, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC
I understand the math,

But, Exactly my point. I cannot see the actual value unless I do a the math. I am not prepared to explain the math behind all of this to each clan member or future clan member. So the statistic tool is rendered useless. This is too bad because it is a good concept. Would be nice if it was actually useful. I thought one of the purposes of the Statistics tool was to simplify managing defense values. You might want to rethink this.

 

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